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Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about

Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about inconveniencing citizens of the attacking nation, are you even real? The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. stop doing war.

xkqd 5y ago
Ultimately if we need to pick sides, I’m going to apply pressure to the Russian citizens who will need to apply pressure to their own dictator. That’s kinda how war works. I think a lot of the folks criticizing you are in a position of privilege, or have an interesting perspective on what open warfare really means. Apply pressure to the country until you get the results you want. I can appreciate the focus on Putin and his cronies, but no one gets out untouched.
atlantas 5y ago
Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard and within a democracy that responds to polling data and protest. In Russia you'll get thrown in jail for 15 years. Also realize that statistically speaking you likely didn't dissent when we invaded Iraq. We were propagandized and consent was manufactured via the NYT and others. If your family was driven into poverty as a result, I don't believe you would have welcomed it whatsoever.
manigandham 5y ago
> "stop doing war" That's not how war works. Have you considered that these actions might provoke and prolong greater conflict?
djfobbz 5y ago
You'd be the same guy wanting to take assault weapons of all Americans that own one ONLY to turn-around and say it's OK for Ukraine to hand out these same weapons to their citizens and let loose a handful of criminals to defend the country. What are your thoughts on USA perpetrating a violent coup in Ukraine by replacing its democratically elected Government with an anti-Russian one in February 2014? https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
> The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. Uh, you mean like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? I don't think whataboutism is a good argument for sanctions here. Sanctions are a balancing act between inconveniencing the regime and inconveniencing their people. There's a calculus to consider. You're acting as if this is a new tenet of international diplomacy or something.
- anon2020dot00 5y ago
  Not everything is whataboutism (which is strangely the newest favourite word of everyone and my pet peeve). He is just criticizing people who criticize sanctions. From his perspective, the cost of sanctions is trivial compared to the cost of war. No whataboutism here. "Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about inconveniencing citizens of the attacking nation, are you even real? The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. stop doing war."
  - throw123123123 5y ago
    > the cost of sanctions is trivial compared to the cost of war. To whom?
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    And I'm arguing that the USA _has_ invaded other nations and left them worse for the wear. Like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. You're right this isn't whataboutism, it's more like sanctions "for thee but not for me". The USA manufactured a flimsy reason to send boots on the ground to Iraq and Afghanistan, much like Russia manufactured a flimsy reason to send boots to the ground in Ukraine. There _were_ massive domestic protests over it. And yet the US did it and received no international censure. The "next time the USA invades I welcome ... [sanctions]" is a flimsy argument; the world has shown that sanctions don't apply when the US invades.
throw123123123 5y ago
> Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about inconveniencing citizens of the attacking nation, are you even real? I dont understand the point of conflating a nation and its citizens here. There are Russians that live in the US, and americans that live in Russia. There are warmongers in all countries, as pacifists in all countries. > The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. Can we put this into a contract? I'm more than willing to be the recipient of your funds if this came to pass.

xkqd 5y ago

Ultimately if we need to pick sides, I’m going to apply pressure to the Russian citizens who will need to apply pressure to their own dictator. That’s kinda how war works. I think a lot of the folks criticizing you are in a position of privilege, or have an interesting perspective on what open warfare really means. Apply pressure to the country until you get the results you want. I can appreciate the focus on Putin and his cronies, but no one gets out untouched.

atlantas 5y ago

Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard and within a democracy that responds to polling data and protest. In Russia you'll get thrown in jail for 15 years. Also realize that statistically speaking you likely didn't dissent when we invaded Iraq. We were propagandized and consent was manufactured via the NYT and others. If your family was driven into poverty as a result, I don't believe you would have welcomed it whatsoever.

manigandham 5y ago

> "stop doing war" That's not how war works. Have you considered that these actions might provoke and prolong greater conflict?

djfobbz 5y ago

You'd be the same guy wanting to take assault weapons of all Americans that own one ONLY to turn-around and say it's OK for Ukraine to hand out these same weapons to their citizens and let loose a handful of criminals to defend the country. What are your thoughts on USA perpetrating a violent coup in Ukraine by replacing its democratically elected Government with an anti-Russian one in February 2014? https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

> The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. Uh, you mean like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? I don't think whataboutism is a good argument for sanctions here. Sanctions are a balancing act between inconveniencing the regime and inconveniencing their people. There's a calculus to consider. You're acting as if this is a new tenet of international diplomacy or something.

anon2020dot00 5y ago
Not everything is whataboutism (which is strangely the newest favourite word of everyone and my pet peeve). He is just criticizing people who criticize sanctions. From his perspective, the cost of sanctions is trivial compared to the cost of war. No whataboutism here. "Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about inconveniencing citizens of the attacking nation, are you even real? The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. stop doing war."
- throw123123123 5y ago
  > the cost of sanctions is trivial compared to the cost of war. To whom?
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  And I'm arguing that the USA _has_ invaded other nations and left them worse for the wear. Like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. You're right this isn't whataboutism, it's more like sanctions "for thee but not for me". The USA manufactured a flimsy reason to send boots on the ground to Iraq and Afghanistan, much like Russia manufactured a flimsy reason to send boots to the ground in Ukraine. There _were_ massive domestic protests over it. And yet the US did it and received no international censure. The "next time the USA invades I welcome ... [sanctions]" is a flimsy argument; the world has shown that sanctions don't apply when the US invades.

throw123123123 5y ago

> Man, you people who when babies are being exploded and apartment buildings attacked with missiles, an entire nation being invaded, who ask these questions about inconveniencing citizens of the attacking nation, are you even real? I dont understand the point of conflating a nation and its citizens here. There are Russians that live in the US, and americans that live in Russia. There are warmongers in all countries, as pacifists in all countries. > The next time the USA invades someone I welcome for you to destroy my financial life and drive my family and I into subsistence farming if it helps to stop us. You have my permissions. Can we put this into a contract? I'm more than willing to be the recipient of your funds if this came to pass.