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If enough protest they won't go to jail... And all those who have will be released. And I might if Russia wasn't literally bombing apartments without even att

If enough protest they won't go to jail... And all those who have will be released. And I might if Russia wasn't literally bombing apartments without even attempting to fight the Ukrainian military... They should think about what living with Putin for another 15 years will look like...

dragonwriter 5y ago
> If enough protest they won't go to jail... Yeah, there is a point where the regime switches from handcuffs to tanks and machine guns to discourage repeats. (And, yes, enough, particularly of the people in the right positions, can defeat that, too, but the outcome tends to be ... unpredictable.)
standardUser 5y ago
That's not how protest movements work. They require organizers and leaders. What precisely do you think happens to those organizers in Russia when they defy their dear leader's sacred mission? A brief stint in jail? I think the best case scenario is nothing cruel happens to their family. But their life is essentially forfeit. Besides, we had the largest protests in US history to prevent the invasion of Iraq. I was at many of them. They did absolutely nothing to stop that war.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
That's certainly not what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989...
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  On the flipside the Russian Empire fell as did the USSR.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    The USSR didn't fall because of protests. The USSR fell because Gorbachev was willing to give up the USSR. Putin is not Gorbachev. Putin is the longest serving Russian leader since Stalin. And the history of the USSR is full of armed actions used to suppress local rebellions. Even Khruschev, the other reforming premiere of the USSR known for his post-Stalinist thaw, intervened during the 1956 Hungarian Revolution [1]. The fall of the Russian Empire in 1917 happened at such a different time in world history (smaller differences between the state's military capabilities and individuals military capabilities, more diffused knowledge of warfare among civilians due to frequent occurrence of wars, greater difficulty in monitoring communications due to older forms of technology, etc) that it doesn't serve to offer many lessons to modernity. If anything Putin's Russia is much closer to China during the 1989 Tiananmen Square movement than Gorbachev's USSR. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > The USSR didn't fall because of protests. The USSR fell because Gorbachev was willing to give up the USSR Without the protests, the coup by forces not willing to give up the USSR against Gorbachev would have succeeded.
      - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
        Sure. The popular sentiment/protests were necessary but not sufficient is my point. Gorbachev was willing to give up power and a coup needed to be organized to hold onto the Soviet Union. In this case, Putin is going nowhere unless he's removed at home by other Russian power brokers. Moreover if Putin gives up the war and goes home, he'll have no face to show in his own government, and he will be disgraced by the West; he's committed so far down this path that it's political suicide to stop.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> If enough protest they won't go to jail... Yeah, there is a point where the regime switches from handcuffs to tanks and machine guns to discourage repeats. (And, yes, enough, particularly of the people in the right positions, can defeat that, too, but the outcome tends to be ... unpredictable.)

standardUser 5y ago

That's not how protest movements work. They require organizers and leaders. What precisely do you think happens to those organizers in Russia when they defy their dear leader's sacred mission? A brief stint in jail? I think the best case scenario is nothing cruel happens to their family. But their life is essentially forfeit. Besides, we had the largest protests in US history to prevent the invasion of Iraq. I was at many of them. They did absolutely nothing to stop that war.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

That's certainly not what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989...

Mikeb85 5y ago
On the flipside the Russian Empire fell as did the USSR.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  The USSR didn't fall because of protests. The USSR fell because Gorbachev was willing to give up the USSR. Putin is not Gorbachev. Putin is the longest serving Russian leader since Stalin. And the history of the USSR is full of armed actions used to suppress local rebellions. Even Khruschev, the other reforming premiere of the USSR known for his post-Stalinist thaw, intervened during the 1956 Hungarian Revolution [1]. The fall of the Russian Empire in 1917 happened at such a different time in world history (smaller differences between the state's military capabilities and individuals military capabilities, more diffused knowledge of warfare among civilians due to frequent occurrence of wars, greater difficulty in monitoring communications due to older forms of technology, etc) that it doesn't serve to offer many lessons to modernity. If anything Putin's Russia is much closer to China during the 1989 Tiananmen Square movement than Gorbachev's USSR. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The USSR didn't fall because of protests. The USSR fell because Gorbachev was willing to give up the USSR Without the protests, the coup by forces not willing to give up the USSR against Gorbachev would have succeeded.
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      Sure. The popular sentiment/protests were necessary but not sufficient is my point. Gorbachev was willing to give up power and a coup needed to be organized to hold onto the Soviet Union. In this case, Putin is going nowhere unless he's removed at home by other Russian power brokers. Moreover if Putin gives up the war and goes home, he'll have no face to show in his own government, and he will be disgraced by the West; he's committed so far down this path that it's political suicide to stop.