3 ms·

Why? Why are people okay with their comfortable life getting worse? There doesn't appear to be any ideology. It isn't communism. It isn't religion. It appe

Why? Why are people okay with their comfortable life getting worse? There doesn't appear to be any ideology. It isn't communism. It isn't religion. It appears to be an ego struggle paid for by the comforts of the Russian people. What are you getting out of this deal?

lisnake 5y ago
People are not okay. They are afraid. Starting from today in Russia any public action against war (or even calling it war) can be punished with up to 15 years in prison.
- Moru 5y ago
  On the other hand people get killed in Ukraine while Russias army is leveling the cities.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    We can all debate who is having a worse day. Doesn't seem productive to dismiss one group's problems because another group's is worse, regardless of the relation between the two.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. For you it will be akin to a natural disaster, and it's better to live with the discomfort than it is to protest and surely forfeit your life and impact your family. This isn't like the West where you can organize massive protests in anger, however ineffective they end up being. And if ISPs stop providing service, how will protestors organize anyway? By laying cable in the ground themselves?
- willis936 5y ago
  Right but I don't see how any of this leads to blaming the West.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Because the West chose to impose these sanctions and restrictions, knowing full well that regular Russian citizens would be hurt by them, but also be fairly powerless to change the course of their government. "I'm pissed that you are hurting me because of the actions of others, and I can't meaningfully influence what these others will do." Seems pretty reasonable to me.
    - willis936 5y ago
      The logic doesn't follow though. Citizens have more influence over their own sovereignty than foreign nations unwilling to engage in armed conflict. "My country brought on the ire of the rest of the world and I am completely devoid of responsibility." Okay. If you were to rank who is to blame for the sanctions why is the West in the top position? Why not the party responsible? If you tug on the thread of "why is this happening?" one thing seems clear: for no reason worth the discomfort.
- tiahura 5y ago
  If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. People keep saying this, but it’s not even close to accurate. The Shah, Marcos, Ceaușescu, and Mubarak come to mind. And, I vaguely remember something in the USSR in ‘91.
- megous 5y ago
  Do they need connection to outside the country to organize? They can still organize on the local network.
odessacubbage 5y ago
strategic bombing doctrine during the second world war was designed with the same intent of incensing the targeted civilian populations into uprising against their government. in effect they simply made people depressed and hopeless. i do not see why deprivation would have a markedly different psychological effect than extermination, if suffering was all that was required to overthrow a despot, there would simply be no more despots.
- willis936 5y ago
  Sanctions are a very far cry from bombing cities. I'm talking about discomfort, not terror.

lisnake 5y ago

People are not okay. They are afraid. Starting from today in Russia any public action against war (or even calling it war) can be punished with up to 15 years in prison.

Moru 5y ago
On the other hand people get killed in Ukraine while Russias army is leveling the cities.
- kelnos 5y ago
  We can all debate who is having a worse day. Doesn't seem productive to dismiss one group's problems because another group's is worse, regardless of the relation between the two.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. For you it will be akin to a natural disaster, and it's better to live with the discomfort than it is to protest and surely forfeit your life and impact your family. This isn't like the West where you can organize massive protests in anger, however ineffective they end up being. And if ISPs stop providing service, how will protestors organize anyway? By laying cable in the ground themselves?

willis936 5y ago
Right but I don't see how any of this leads to blaming the West.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Because the West chose to impose these sanctions and restrictions, knowing full well that regular Russian citizens would be hurt by them, but also be fairly powerless to change the course of their government. "I'm pissed that you are hurting me because of the actions of others, and I can't meaningfully influence what these others will do." Seems pretty reasonable to me.
  - willis936 5y ago
    The logic doesn't follow though. Citizens have more influence over their own sovereignty than foreign nations unwilling to engage in armed conflict. "My country brought on the ire of the rest of the world and I am completely devoid of responsibility." Okay. If you were to rank who is to blame for the sanctions why is the West in the top position? Why not the party responsible? If you tug on the thread of "why is this happening?" one thing seems clear: for no reason worth the discomfort.
tiahura 5y ago
If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. People keep saying this, but it’s not even close to accurate. The Shah, Marcos, Ceaușescu, and Mubarak come to mind. And, I vaguely remember something in the USSR in ‘91.
megous 5y ago
Do they need connection to outside the country to organize? They can still organize on the local network.

odessacubbage 5y ago

strategic bombing doctrine during the second world war was designed with the same intent of incensing the targeted civilian populations into uprising against their government. in effect they simply made people depressed and hopeless. i do not see why deprivation would have a markedly different psychological effect than extermination, if suffering was all that was required to overthrow a despot, there would simply be no more despots.

willis936 5y ago
Sanctions are a very far cry from bombing cities. I'm talking about discomfort, not terror.