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I'm in Russia, an let me tell you, this does not have that effect at all. Most folks are just getting angry at collective west for all these bans, undeserved in

I'm in Russia, an let me tell you, this does not have that effect at all. Most folks are just getting angry at collective west for all these bans, undeserved in their opinion. Big news: people are shortsighted and irrational, especially during crisis. I'm afraid this will just help Putin in uniting Russians in hatred.

throw123123123 5y ago
I think its pretty rational to blame your censor, not your censor's enemy.
- javajosh 5y ago
  It's important to recognize that most people in the world are hicks. They are low information, and not rational in the way you mean it. (America is unusual because our hicks are rich, but we're mostly hicks, too.)
waffleiron 5y ago
I think the anger is also understandable, there have been so many illegal wars, interventions and invasions that didn’t cause all these bans. If I were in Russia I’d probably be easily swept up by that anger. It’d be hard to see how it’s fair when this is happening to you, even if it feels deserved from an outside perspective.
- pastor_bob 5y ago
  Your sentiment is normally valid, but most Russians supposedly literally don't believe they're at war because of the content Putin feeds them. They think it's a small operation in the Donbas. It has nothing to do with being 'illegal' or whatever.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    Do you have a (recent) source for that? I can’t imagine that to be true with the impact this war has had on daily life for Russian. The Russian government acknowledged that hundreds of soldiers died, publicly. That’s not a tiny mission.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  > I think the anger is also understandable, there have been so many illegal wars, interventions and invasions that didn’t cause all these bans. "But mom, they got to do crime, why can't I do crime?" Nobody gets to do crime.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    But not everyone gets punished for it.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      I guess because the Zodiac killer got away with it, people should be mad they can't serial kill too - instead of mad that they weren't caught?
  - odessacubbage 5y ago
    one despot's crime is another hegemon's police action
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Obviously superpowers get to do crime, Russia just mistakenly thought it was a superpower.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I mean, sure. But I think it's perfectly natural to get pissed off when some other party punishes you for doing something that other party does repeatedly, and without consequence. I imagine that there are plenty of Russian citizens who are against the war in Ukraine, but are also -- perfectly rationally -- angry at the US and West for the new round of sanctions and restrictions.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  > there have been so many illegal wars Is this even an "illegal" war? I mean, other than by the standard of "every war is an illegal war"? Not taking sides (I don't know enough about the history and politics to do so), but I know Ukraine was part of Russia until very recently. If, somehow, Mexico had the means to do so and were to try to "take back" Texas... I can't help but wonder if the international response would be a lot more neutral than the response to Russia trying to "take back" Ukraine.
willis936 5y ago
Why? Why are people okay with their comfortable life getting worse? There doesn't appear to be any ideology. It isn't communism. It isn't religion. It appears to be an ego struggle paid for by the comforts of the Russian people. What are you getting out of this deal?
- lisnake 5y ago
  People are not okay. They are afraid. Starting from today in Russia any public action against war (or even calling it war) can be punished with up to 15 years in prison.
  - Moru 5y ago
    On the other hand people get killed in Ukraine while Russias army is leveling the cities.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      We can all debate who is having a worse day. Doesn't seem productive to dismiss one group's problems because another group's is worse, regardless of the relation between the two.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. For you it will be akin to a natural disaster, and it's better to live with the discomfort than it is to protest and surely forfeit your life and impact your family. This isn't like the West where you can organize massive protests in anger, however ineffective they end up being. And if ISPs stop providing service, how will protestors organize anyway? By laying cable in the ground themselves?
  - willis936 5y ago
    Right but I don't see how any of this leads to blaming the West.
exclusiv 5y ago
That will probably change over time as Russia becomes more and more isolated from the world. I'm sure the oligarchs are pissed at yacht seizures and banking discomfort too but so what? This is a valid tactic since they didn't attack a NATO member. If they did, then they would be facing the same things that Ukrainian citizens are. Russia flexes their might against their own citizens constantly and disrupts their quality of life. There's always going to be some that will be emboldened for the wrong reasons. But it doesn't make sense for nations to sit idly by. The idea that citizens over there could organize with internet and actually accomplish any change is nonsense.
tiahura 5y ago
Let’s just call it as it is - Putin is a product of Russian culture and Russian society. In retrospect we should have ground the Russian military to dust after ‘91. No aid without nuclear disarmament and population reeducation. Hopefully when the dust settles this time, we don’t make the same mistakes.

throw123123123 5y ago

I think its pretty rational to blame your censor, not your censor's enemy.

javajosh 5y ago
It's important to recognize that most people in the world are hicks. They are low information, and not rational in the way you mean it. (America is unusual because our hicks are rich, but we're mostly hicks, too.)

waffleiron 5y ago

I think the anger is also understandable, there have been so many illegal wars, interventions and invasions that didn’t cause all these bans. If I were in Russia I’d probably be easily swept up by that anger. It’d be hard to see how it’s fair when this is happening to you, even if it feels deserved from an outside perspective.

pastor_bob 5y ago
Your sentiment is normally valid, but most Russians supposedly literally don't believe they're at war because of the content Putin feeds them. They think it's a small operation in the Donbas. It has nothing to do with being 'illegal' or whatever.
- waffleiron 5y ago
  Do you have a (recent) source for that? I can’t imagine that to be true with the impact this war has had on daily life for Russian. The Russian government acknowledged that hundreds of soldiers died, publicly. That’s not a tiny mission.
arcticbull 5y ago
> I think the anger is also understandable, there have been so many illegal wars, interventions and invasions that didn’t cause all these bans. "But mom, they got to do crime, why can't I do crime?" Nobody gets to do crime.
- waffleiron 5y ago
  But not everyone gets punished for it.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I guess because the Zodiac killer got away with it, people should be mad they can't serial kill too - instead of mad that they weren't caught?
- odessacubbage 5y ago
  one despot's crime is another hegemon's police action
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Obviously superpowers get to do crime, Russia just mistakenly thought it was a superpower.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I mean, sure. But I think it's perfectly natural to get pissed off when some other party punishes you for doing something that other party does repeatedly, and without consequence. I imagine that there are plenty of Russian citizens who are against the war in Ukraine, but are also -- perfectly rationally -- angry at the US and West for the new round of sanctions and restrictions.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> there have been so many illegal wars Is this even an "illegal" war? I mean, other than by the standard of "every war is an illegal war"? Not taking sides (I don't know enough about the history and politics to do so), but I know Ukraine was part of Russia until very recently. If, somehow, Mexico had the means to do so and were to try to "take back" Texas... I can't help but wonder if the international response would be a lot more neutral than the response to Russia trying to "take back" Ukraine.

willis936 5y ago

Why? Why are people okay with their comfortable life getting worse? There doesn't appear to be any ideology. It isn't communism. It isn't religion. It appears to be an ego struggle paid for by the comforts of the Russian people. What are you getting out of this deal?

lisnake 5y ago
People are not okay. They are afraid. Starting from today in Russia any public action against war (or even calling it war) can be punished with up to 15 years in prison.
- Moru 5y ago
  On the other hand people get killed in Ukraine while Russias army is leveling the cities.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    We can all debate who is having a worse day. Doesn't seem productive to dismiss one group's problems because another group's is worse, regardless of the relation between the two.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
If you don't live under a functioning democracy, you're not going to feel agency to actually change the actions of the state. For you it will be akin to a natural disaster, and it's better to live with the discomfort than it is to protest and surely forfeit your life and impact your family. This isn't like the West where you can organize massive protests in anger, however ineffective they end up being. And if ISPs stop providing service, how will protestors organize anyway? By laying cable in the ground themselves?
- willis936 5y ago
  Right but I don't see how any of this leads to blaming the West.

exclusiv 5y ago

That will probably change over time as Russia becomes more and more isolated from the world. I'm sure the oligarchs are pissed at yacht seizures and banking discomfort too but so what? This is a valid tactic since they didn't attack a NATO member. If they did, then they would be facing the same things that Ukrainian citizens are. Russia flexes their might against their own citizens constantly and disrupts their quality of life. There's always going to be some that will be emboldened for the wrong reasons. But it doesn't make sense for nations to sit idly by. The idea that citizens over there could organize with internet and actually accomplish any change is nonsense.

tiahura 5y ago

Let’s just call it as it is - Putin is a product of Russian culture and Russian society. In retrospect we should have ground the Russian military to dust after ‘91. No aid without nuclear disarmament and population reeducation. Hopefully when the dust settles this time, we don’t make the same mistakes.