5 ms·

Any Russian users here - does the average person here not wonder why so many previously acceptable services are being blocked and/or silenced? Do they not wonde

by JonoW 5y ago

Any Russian users here - does the average person here not wonder why so many previously acceptable services are being blocked and/or silenced? Do they not wonder what it is that the authorities want to shield them from?

shmerl 5y ago
I assume average person isn't here. And those who are here know why and have ways to bypass government censorship too.
nigerian1981 5y ago
Polls show most Russians are backing Putin https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-appears-to-have-no-way-out-as-putin-goes-all-in-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-appears...
- jimbob45 5y ago
  Are polls trustworthy either way at this point? People are getting jailed for showing up to protest at all. Answering ‘No’ or abstaining from participation just seems like you’re signing yourself up for a trip to the gulag.
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    Remember when the majority of Americans supported a War in Iraq? It's easy to build domestic support for almost any war in the early days. It's the long hard reality of war that turns people against it.
    - antifa 5y ago
      I think Putin has some elaborate misinformation most of the country believes, like how we had lied about WMDs.
      - RC_ITR 5y ago
        Yeah. And then 8 years later when it becomes pretty clear Iraq/Ukraine doesn’t want you there, it’s hard to keep the populace misinformed.
  - lovehashbrowns 5y ago
    They're probably pretty accurate, yes. Not that I agree with any of it; but Putin has a ton of "justifications" for what's happening in Ukraine right now. The main one being that the US & West are threatening Russia's entire existence via NATO expansion. If most of the media around you is state-sanctioned and pro-Putin, it's super easy to go along with Putin's justifications.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
I'm fairness, Western European countries have done the same to Russian media. Here in the UK RT News suddenly disappeared from the air. As the saying goes, the first casualty of war is the truth. That applies everywhere.
- sib 5y ago
  Eehhhh... do you think most Western Europeans don't know what's going on?
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    I don't know what's really going on, only at best an approximation because all the reports I have access to are biased in some way. It's important to recognise this.
    - colpabar 5y ago
      Thank you for saying this. I really can't stand the "west good, everyone else bad" arrogance I see here sometimes. Western rulers lie to their people too! As an exercise, search for "the ghost of kyiv" and then try to imagine what the headlines would look like if it were a actually a fake russian story about a russian pilot instead of a ukrainian one.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        [flagged]
        colpabar 5y ago
        I give a shit, and with all the talk of how dangerous misinformation is, it seems like a lot of people should. At least, that is what we’re told. I can kind of understand the notion that it’s meant to boost morale, but the idea that western media outlets can now claim misinformation is ok when they do it, especially considering they very often claim that it is a “threat to our democracy.” Also, are you implying that I’m an agent of russia? I know people in the ukraine, and I am not happy at all about what’s happening, so fuck you.
raverbashing 5y ago
bruceb 5y ago
Same could be said for Youtube in Europe, Direct TV, Roku, etc banning Russia Today (RT), Reddit banning .RU domains and so on.
- andydd 5y ago
  One is a one way propaganda TV channel and the others are ways to communicate. Same can't be said.
  - bruceb 5y ago
    No, isn't exact comparison but it is the same vein. RT.com headlines have actually been relatively straight forward statement of fact with out charged language. I suspect many at the channel are against the war. They also present full or longer clips of Russian official, instead of (possibly misleading) sound bites. One doesn't have to agree with a viewpoint to find value in knowing what the other side thinks, instead of being told what they think. FOX News and MSNBC are a form of propaganda as well.
    - ushakov 5y ago
      > RT.com headlines have actually been relatively straight forward statement of fact with out charged language this is how propaganda works they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% of it of propaganda you won't notice it on first sight, otherwise you wouldn't watch it but watching it for years daily have eroded your brain already
      - cookingrobot 5y ago
        If your bar for “not propaganda” is 95% truthful, what news site is left that passes that test?
        tablespoon 5y ago
        >> they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% of it of propaganda > If your bar for “not propaganda” is 95% truthful, what news site is left that passes that test? You misunderstand the test. A better way to state it would be: "they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% is deliberate, institutionally-sanctioned lies." A lot of people can't seem to tell the difference between false statements and lies, and conflate the concepts all the time. Add hindsight into the mix, and it gets even worse.
hurflmurfl 5y ago
My take is that most people use VK instead of Facebook and Twitter isn't used much either. Sure, some people use it, but it's nowhere near the popularity of Telegram or Instagram. Some friends, who lurk on Facebook more, do periodically share this or that post that seems to be bashing Russia, so no wonder they blocked Facebook. Same for Twitter. I think people might get more hurt by a ban of Instagram. Another point is that people who care enough about free speech, democracy, etc. are more likely to be aware of and use VPN services, so they might still be able to access the content, but people who don't use VPN are unlikely to install it just to check some viral anti-regime post on Facebook, so maybe this is a move to prevent future growth of the audience reading news on Facebook. Of course, take this all with a grain of salt, as I hardly use Facebook or Twitter, just Messenger sometimes. I'm mostly extrapolating from the usage by my friends and family.
asats 5y ago
Average russians don't use twitter or facebook, it's mostly the educated middle class. Educated middle class people know what's going on, hate Putin and have been protesting it all since 2011, but there's only so much they can do against an armed police state that arrest kids and runs a torture convenor belt in prisons: https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-inmates-raped-mutilated/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-in...
veganhouseDJ 5y ago
I think their money becoming basically worthless is probably tipping people off something is up.
- ojosilva 5y ago
  So far, this just looks like another recession for regular Russians, and not as bad as 1998-99 [1]. At least as far as "their money" goes. Losing access to western goods, services and travel may be the more noticiable factor, at least for some people. [1] from The Economist: https://archive.ph/T61OQ https://archive.ph/T61OQ

by JonoW 5y ago

shmerl 5y ago

I assume average person isn't here. And those who are here know why and have ways to bypass government censorship too.

nigerian1981 5y ago

Polls show most Russians are backing Putin https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-appears-to-have-no-way-out-as-putin-goes-all-in-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-appears...

jimbob45 5y ago
Are polls trustworthy either way at this point? People are getting jailed for showing up to protest at all. Answering ‘No’ or abstaining from participation just seems like you’re signing yourself up for a trip to the gulag.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  Remember when the majority of Americans supported a War in Iraq? It's easy to build domestic support for almost any war in the early days. It's the long hard reality of war that turns people against it.
  - antifa 5y ago
    I think Putin has some elaborate misinformation most of the country believes, like how we had lied about WMDs.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      Yeah. And then 8 years later when it becomes pretty clear Iraq/Ukraine doesn’t want you there, it’s hard to keep the populace misinformed.
- lovehashbrowns 5y ago
  They're probably pretty accurate, yes. Not that I agree with any of it; but Putin has a ton of "justifications" for what's happening in Ukraine right now. The main one being that the US & West are threatening Russia's entire existence via NATO expansion. If most of the media around you is state-sanctioned and pro-Putin, it's super easy to go along with Putin's justifications.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

I'm fairness, Western European countries have done the same to Russian media. Here in the UK RT News suddenly disappeared from the air. As the saying goes, the first casualty of war is the truth. That applies everywhere.

sib 5y ago
Eehhhh... do you think most Western Europeans don't know what's going on?
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  I don't know what's really going on, only at best an approximation because all the reports I have access to are biased in some way. It's important to recognise this.
  - colpabar 5y ago
    Thank you for saying this. I really can't stand the "west good, everyone else bad" arrogance I see here sometimes. Western rulers lie to their people too! As an exercise, search for "the ghost of kyiv" and then try to imagine what the headlines would look like if it were a actually a fake russian story about a russian pilot instead of a ukrainian one.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - colpabar 5y ago
        I give a shit, and with all the talk of how dangerous misinformation is, it seems like a lot of people should. At least, that is what we’re told. I can kind of understand the notion that it’s meant to boost morale, but the idea that western media outlets can now claim misinformation is ok when they do it, especially considering they very often claim that it is a “threat to our democracy.” Also, are you implying that I’m an agent of russia? I know people in the ukraine, and I am not happy at all about what’s happening, so fuck you.

raverbashing 5y ago

bruceb 5y ago

Same could be said for Youtube in Europe, Direct TV, Roku, etc banning Russia Today (RT), Reddit banning .RU domains and so on.

andydd 5y ago
One is a one way propaganda TV channel and the others are ways to communicate. Same can't be said.
- bruceb 5y ago
  No, isn't exact comparison but it is the same vein. RT.com headlines have actually been relatively straight forward statement of fact with out charged language. I suspect many at the channel are against the war. They also present full or longer clips of Russian official, instead of (possibly misleading) sound bites. One doesn't have to agree with a viewpoint to find value in knowing what the other side thinks, instead of being told what they think. FOX News and MSNBC are a form of propaganda as well.
  - ushakov 5y ago
    > RT.com headlines have actually been relatively straight forward statement of fact with out charged language this is how propaganda works they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% of it of propaganda you won't notice it on first sight, otherwise you wouldn't watch it but watching it for years daily have eroded your brain already
    - cookingrobot 5y ago
      If your bar for “not propaganda” is 95% truthful, what news site is left that passes that test?
      - tablespoon 5y ago
        >> they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% of it of propaganda > If your bar for “not propaganda” is 95% truthful, what news site is left that passes that test? You misunderstand the test. A better way to state it would be: "they tell mostly truth, but 5-10% is deliberate, institutionally-sanctioned lies." A lot of people can't seem to tell the difference between false statements and lies, and conflate the concepts all the time. Add hindsight into the mix, and it gets even worse.

hurflmurfl 5y ago

My take is that most people use VK instead of Facebook and Twitter isn't used much either. Sure, some people use it, but it's nowhere near the popularity of Telegram or Instagram. Some friends, who lurk on Facebook more, do periodically share this or that post that seems to be bashing Russia, so no wonder they blocked Facebook. Same for Twitter. I think people might get more hurt by a ban of Instagram. Another point is that people who care enough about free speech, democracy, etc. are more likely to be aware of and use VPN services, so they might still be able to access the content, but people who don't use VPN are unlikely to install it just to check some viral anti-regime post on Facebook, so maybe this is a move to prevent future growth of the audience reading news on Facebook. Of course, take this all with a grain of salt, as I hardly use Facebook or Twitter, just Messenger sometimes. I'm mostly extrapolating from the usage by my friends and family.

asats 5y ago

Average russians don't use twitter or facebook, it's mostly the educated middle class. Educated middle class people know what's going on, hate Putin and have been protesting it all since 2011, but there's only so much they can do against an armed police state that arrest kids and runs a torture convenor belt in prisons: https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-inmates-raped-mutilated/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-in...

veganhouseDJ 5y ago

I think their money becoming basically worthless is probably tipping people off something is up.

ojosilva 5y ago
So far, this just looks like another recession for regular Russians, and not as bad as 1998-99 [1]. At least as far as "their money" goes. Losing access to western goods, services and travel may be the more noticiable factor, at least for some people. [1] from The Economist: https://archive.ph/T61OQ https://archive.ph/T61OQ