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>> "Car on demand" model for most current vehicle owners I don't see that. Cars are not just transport. They are fashion statements. They are virtue signali

>> "Car on demand" model for most current vehicle owners I don't see that. Cars are not just transport. They are fashion statements. They are virtue signaling. They are portable storage lockers. I just don't see everyone who owns a car now giving all that up just because the car can drive itself. The traffic/congestion implications of "car on demand" are also staggering, basically doubling the number of trips made as each car delivers itself empty to the next customer. And further reducing the cost of car ownership will only pull more people away from mass transportation/biking/walking.

bentcorner 5y ago
> They are fashion statements. They are virtue signaling. They are portable storage lockers. Flip it around the other way - if you had a L5 car at your fingertips, would you give it up so that you could make a fashion statement, virtue signal, or have a portable storage locker?
- notahacker 5y ago
  There's already apps which give us the equivalent of a L5 car fleet at our fingertips; they just come with low-paid humans attached. Not all car drivers' total cost of car ownership works out less than the Uber fares for the rides they take either....
- sandworm101 5y ago
  Yes. Instantly. I keep all sorts of stuff in my car, from shopping bags to a trauma kit. When i am on alert (military) i keep a duffle bag full of my stuff so i dont have to go home before a snap exercise. And in a town of pickup trucks and suvs i enjoy being the smallest car on the road, especially when i see trucks in the ditch needing help. Ever seen a 2door honda pull an f150 out of the ditch? I have. I got a picture of that one in my office.
bin_bash 5y ago
There is so much wrong with your statement. First, Gen Z doesn’t care nearly as much as previous generations about driving and what vehicles mean for status. Expect that trend to continue especially when ownership goes away. And as far as “doubling trips”, the car won’t have to drive far to find its next pickup and it may not have to do empty pickups at all with the equivalent of Lyft Line. If we don’t need parking lots and spaces we can use that real estate for more mass transit.
- 83 5y ago
  I wouldn't underestimate people's vanity so much. Also there are numerous other complications that get glossed over. How many L5 cars are going to be available in my area on a popular holiday travel weekend that have a roof rack for kayaks and a 7 pin trailer connector and electric brake controller for my camper? Not to mention giving up the other customizations I enjoy with my current vehicle - removed rear seats for more space/less weight, dash cam, winter tires, etc. I suspect if self driving comes to fruition it will be a mixture for many people. I can definitely see our 2 car household just owning one car that fits our niche use cases, and then one on-demand cars for daily work trips and filling in the gaps.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    You are in a privileged position. Regulations will follow the introduction of self driving cars to make owning a car a much more expensive proposition. With wages stagnant for decades, the mass market will be forced into the rental model. That will be able to cover their use case as well as your use case because there won't be as many of you.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - bin_bash 5y ago
    > How many L5 cars are going to be available in my area on a popular holiday travel weekend that have a roof rack for kayaks and a 7 pin trailer connector and electric brake controller for my camper? Weekend reservations. Just like people do with kayaks today. > Not to mention giving up the other customizations I enjoy with my current vehicle - removed rear seats for more space/less weight, dash cam, winter tires, etc. None of this is necessary with robotaxis. You have way more flexibility in terms of space. You won’t need a dashcam. Weight and tires won’t make a difference to the rider.
    - diggernet 5y ago
      Anyone who kayaks frequently is much more likely to own than to rent. And you are far too dismissive of the customization/equipment/storage aspect. For just one example, there are vast numbers of parents who have child seats, strollers, diapers, wipes, etc stored in their cars. You can be sure they have no interest in hauling all that stuff around during their shopping or whatever because the robotaxi is off getting another customer.
Hjfrf 5y ago
Excessive consumption as fashion has gone the other way for young kids. Environmentalism seems to be "cool af",to the point where not owning a car is virtue signalling.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  I think part of it has to do with the possibility that they are just poorer on average compared to their parents. Circumstances help define the culture so rallying against excessive consumption is more in vogue when you cannot consume in the first place.
nebula8804 5y ago
Think about the possibility of changing cars on demand. In the morning you can rent a mobile bed like car to get to work(take a nap while it takes you to work or get some tasks done), when coming home you can rent an suv to pick up groceries/pick up your kids and on the weekends if you need a pickup truck/van, you can request one of those for the occasion. Yes there will be massive traffic implications. This is probably something that will have to be addressed when it happens. If there are dedicated self driving car lanes, can the cars communicate with each other to help reduce traffic? At the very least pollution will be significantly reduced from today's smog filled cities like LA thanks to the transition to EVs(I don't expect this revolution to occur before the transition to EVs). Finally, in regards to public transportation: it is already a failure in the US outside a few cities. It is a lost cause in a society that focuses on individualism vs collectivism. In terms of walking/biking, I can see improved access to these services. Can you imagine how a car that never gets tired/drunk will reduce accident and subsequently insurance rates? If the cards are played right, there is an opportunity for a massive transformation of how bicyclists and public walkers are treated in relation to cars.

bentcorner 5y ago

> They are fashion statements. They are virtue signaling. They are portable storage lockers. Flip it around the other way - if you had a L5 car at your fingertips, would you give it up so that you could make a fashion statement, virtue signal, or have a portable storage locker?

notahacker 5y ago
There's already apps which give us the equivalent of a L5 car fleet at our fingertips; they just come with low-paid humans attached. Not all car drivers' total cost of car ownership works out less than the Uber fares for the rides they take either....
sandworm101 5y ago
Yes. Instantly. I keep all sorts of stuff in my car, from shopping bags to a trauma kit. When i am on alert (military) i keep a duffle bag full of my stuff so i dont have to go home before a snap exercise. And in a town of pickup trucks and suvs i enjoy being the smallest car on the road, especially when i see trucks in the ditch needing help. Ever seen a 2door honda pull an f150 out of the ditch? I have. I got a picture of that one in my office.

bin_bash 5y ago

There is so much wrong with your statement. First, Gen Z doesn’t care nearly as much as previous generations about driving and what vehicles mean for status. Expect that trend to continue especially when ownership goes away. And as far as “doubling trips”, the car won’t have to drive far to find its next pickup and it may not have to do empty pickups at all with the equivalent of Lyft Line. If we don’t need parking lots and spaces we can use that real estate for more mass transit.

83 5y ago
I wouldn't underestimate people's vanity so much. Also there are numerous other complications that get glossed over. How many L5 cars are going to be available in my area on a popular holiday travel weekend that have a roof rack for kayaks and a 7 pin trailer connector and electric brake controller for my camper? Not to mention giving up the other customizations I enjoy with my current vehicle - removed rear seats for more space/less weight, dash cam, winter tires, etc. I suspect if self driving comes to fruition it will be a mixture for many people. I can definitely see our 2 car household just owning one car that fits our niche use cases, and then one on-demand cars for daily work trips and filling in the gaps.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  You are in a privileged position. Regulations will follow the introduction of self driving cars to make owning a car a much more expensive proposition. With wages stagnant for decades, the mass market will be forced into the rental model. That will be able to cover their use case as well as your use case because there won't be as many of you.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- bin_bash 5y ago
  > How many L5 cars are going to be available in my area on a popular holiday travel weekend that have a roof rack for kayaks and a 7 pin trailer connector and electric brake controller for my camper? Weekend reservations. Just like people do with kayaks today. > Not to mention giving up the other customizations I enjoy with my current vehicle - removed rear seats for more space/less weight, dash cam, winter tires, etc. None of this is necessary with robotaxis. You have way more flexibility in terms of space. You won’t need a dashcam. Weight and tires won’t make a difference to the rider.
  - diggernet 5y ago
    Anyone who kayaks frequently is much more likely to own than to rent. And you are far too dismissive of the customization/equipment/storage aspect. For just one example, there are vast numbers of parents who have child seats, strollers, diapers, wipes, etc stored in their cars. You can be sure they have no interest in hauling all that stuff around during their shopping or whatever because the robotaxi is off getting another customer.

Hjfrf 5y ago

Excessive consumption as fashion has gone the other way for young kids. Environmentalism seems to be "cool af",to the point where not owning a car is virtue signalling.

nebula8804 5y ago
I think part of it has to do with the possibility that they are just poorer on average compared to their parents. Circumstances help define the culture so rallying against excessive consumption is more in vogue when you cannot consume in the first place.

nebula8804 5y ago

Think about the possibility of changing cars on demand. In the morning you can rent a mobile bed like car to get to work(take a nap while it takes you to work or get some tasks done), when coming home you can rent an suv to pick up groceries/pick up your kids and on the weekends if you need a pickup truck/van, you can request one of those for the occasion. Yes there will be massive traffic implications. This is probably something that will have to be addressed when it happens. If there are dedicated self driving car lanes, can the cars communicate with each other to help reduce traffic? At the very least pollution will be significantly reduced from today's smog filled cities like LA thanks to the transition to EVs(I don't expect this revolution to occur before the transition to EVs). Finally, in regards to public transportation: it is already a failure in the US outside a few cities. It is a lost cause in a society that focuses on individualism vs collectivism. In terms of walking/biking, I can see improved access to these services. Can you imagine how a car that never gets tired/drunk will reduce accident and subsequently insurance rates? If the cards are played right, there is an opportunity for a massive transformation of how bicyclists and public walkers are treated in relation to cars.