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i took mushrooms once, and documented my experience. i've gone back and re-read it several times, and each time i do so, i both laugh like crazy and realize i

i took mushrooms once, and documented my experience. i've gone back and re-read it several times, and each time i do so, i both laugh like crazy and realize i was getting glimpses of ideas i'm only now starting to understand. if you want to read it, here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465583/ShroomReport.pdf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465583/ShroomReport.pdf

edtechre 15y ago
How is that enlightening? The doc makes you sound like an imbecile.
- MarkPNeyer 15y ago
  the main thing i took out of the experience was that i should stop being so afraid of suffering, because suffering can lead to personal growth. also, realizing i didn't need a girlfriend to be happy was really big deal for me.
  - edtechre 15y ago
    Instead of doing drugs to experience "enlightenment" (LOL), you could, I don't know... read a book and actually learn something of value.
    - MarkPNeyer 15y ago
      is there a reason you keep using the word 'enlightenment'? if you don't see any value in learning that suffering isn't always bad, i think i understand your attitude a little better.
    - edtechre 15y ago
      I have no issue with whatever it is you posited after your masturbatory experience. It's just that I don't find your epiphany particularly deep, nor do I see how LSD was even necessary for you to arrive at your destination of nowhere. You know what actually makes a difference in life? Acquire knowledge, apply that knowledge, make connections and use all of that to HELP other people and change the world. Tripping on shrooms by yourself or with your fellow dunderheads does nothing for anyone, yourself included. Stop pretending it does.
      - MarkPNeyer 15y ago
        if you are correct that my use of mushrooms has not and will not do anything for anyone, why are you telling me this? if anyone reads what you have written and benefits from your insight, then you must have been wrong - because you wouldn't have written what you did if i hadn't posted this document detailing my experience with mushrooms.
      - pyre 15y ago
        > You know what actually makes a difference in life? Taking action makes a difference in life. People don't take action just for its own sake. They have motivations. Where do this motivations come from? Ultimately the mind. The mind can be influenced by books and general knowledge, as well as experiences. Do you contest that if one did the same thing twice (once on drugs, the other not) that those experiences would different? Who's to say that the experience on the drugs can't be the one that inspires someone to do something with their life (or in this case, to alter their way of viewing the world)? You? What authority do you have in such a field? What are you credentials to make such proclamations?
        edtechre 15y ago
        You could claim the same about getting high off of glue since that affects the mind too. Seriously, what every day experience /doesn't/ affect your mind? My point stands on its own. Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does nothing for anyone. End.
        lhnz 15y ago
        So your argument is that (1) since every drug/substance/experience affects your mind everything is the same, (2) consuming something does not create so therefore has no utility to anybody: the only utility is 'taking action'. These points do not stand on their own. Everything might affect your mind but that doesn't mean that every experience is the same. Consuming something may not make a difference to other people's lives, but it might give direct utility to yourself (for example eating food, drinking water, reading a book, watching a film.) This article was about an increase in openness. If you become more open as a result of doing something then indirectly your future actions might hold more utility to the people that you affect.
    - lhnz 15y ago
      It's interesting to me that you believe you can achieve the same kind of inner thoughts from reading books. There are many people here that have come out from trips feeling more enlightened than when they entered them. Remember also that you are in the comments for an article about a study in which it is said to increase openness. You're telling people that it won't enlighten? Do you disagree with the results of the study? The belief you're holding is too strong since you've not been able to demonstrate any evidence for it.
    - jinfiesto 15y ago
      Lol, I don't think it's enlightenment, but I experienced the feeling without drugs first. In the Buddhist tradition, it's known as kensho or satori (technically different, but similar enough for our purposes.) In either case, it's definitely worthwhile and can't be learned from a book.
- steve_b 15y ago
  That's pretty harsh. I bet you Huxley's original notes for Doors Of Perception were probably jumbled too. But both DoP and Mark's notes allude to the same thing: without a valve on our consciousness, we'd just sit around all day and be blown away by the creases in our jeans. Edit: oh ya, and thanks for sharing Mark.
  - hartror 15y ago
    Seconded, thanks for sharing Mark. A number of friends have gone through life altering trips such as you describe, there appear to be positive things that can be gleaned from psychedelics about oneself. That said I had one friend who didn't come back and ended up in an institution for a period of months. He had a number of underlying issues that the drug brought to the fore. It was a horrible experience for all involved.
    - Radix 15y ago
      Would you elaborate on this? Did he come out of it twelve months in? it's rare to find negative commentary on psilocybin on the internet. Only a couple warnings in the thread now.
      - wellsaid 15y ago
        Unfortunately I think the Internet is biased toward good feedback about psychedelics because those who had problems either: - lost interest in psychedelics, - hate to write about it, - are not able to write about it, - don't want anyone to know they were "mad" once
      - hartror 15y ago
        He took some at a party I was at and freaked out. I nursed him for a few hours, he babbled the same phrase over and over until his housemates came and picked him up. I've been told since that he had freaked out before and had been fine once he came down so they treated this incident the same. Took him home and sat with him till he calmed down and put him to bed. The next morning he was still acting strangely, not making sense etc. They kept an eye on him that day figuring he was just tired and worn out. But the next day he was worse so they got him into a psych hospital after some difficulty (he wouldn't go at first). He was put on anti-psychotics and stayed there for a couple of months. He was released back into his parent's care, he is from the UK and this happened in Australia. So he went back to the UK and reportedly has found god and is doing fine. (apart from the religion thing ;)
- wynand 15y ago
  Please avoid personal remarks. It's alright to disagree strongly with someone else but mutual respect is one of the attributes that keeps HN an open and interesting discussion forum.
- mannicken 15y ago
  You're missing the point here. The author was typing from a world where only a few have been, where things melt into the floor, music turns into objects, objects turns into people, and your mind is on a huge emotional rollercoaster. Imagine being fired, then getting a date, then you remember your sister died (many years ago), then you realize you are awesome, then you feel AWFUL because you said something you shouldn't have at that party two months ago, then you realize everything is actually one whirling organism of energy and you can never die, then you hear loud noises and think it's the cops and get scared. All of this in a very very short span of time. You start sketching or typing and you realize you can see blood flowing through your hands, and then you realize you're actually an animal for whom it's hard to form coherent thoughts because everything is just so wobbly and undefined. Then you become amazed at how human language is actually a form of learned "symbols->sounds" synesthesia. And writing is "sound->visuals" synesthesia. People have pissed their pants from fear on psychedelics, the fact that the author of the document was able to jot down his experience is a remarkable addition to the knowledge of humans.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
tiles 15y ago
Thanks for sharing this. This is literally a legal proxy for understanding what kind of changes the article is talking about, so I think this is plenty relevant :)
- fybren 15y ago
  Agreed. Also - thoroughly entertaining & just, real. Thank you for sharing, Mark.
throwaway7-2521 15y ago
Somewhat odd to have used OJ as the mixer; vitamin-C is often considered to accelerate the breakdown of psychoactive substances (especially those like MDMA and LSD), so would normally be avoided until you feel you're 'done' and want things to end.
- sophacles 15y ago
  I've always been told it enhances the experience... Anyway, it doesn't follow that faster breakdown makes the trip end... could be that the very process of breaking down the active substance produces the effects desired, and the vitamin-C acts as a catalyst to "even out" the experience.
  - shabble 15y ago
    You might be confusing the OJ/vitamin C with the properties of grapefruit juice, which is well-established to alter the properties of various liver enzymes, particularly those which typically metabolise psychedelic / hallucinogenic drugs. Wikipedia has a brief blurb about it: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_drugs_affected_by_grapefruit https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_drugs... Actually, it does mention orange juice as containing flavonoids which may have some (albeit lesser) effect on drug metabolism.
    - sophacles 15y ago
      Fair enough, but doesn't Grapefruit Juice contain a high vitamin C content also?
      - shabble 15y ago
        Yeah. Actually, it looks like there is mention in the literature (Simon Wills Drugs of abuse, 2nd Ed, 2005)[1] of vitamin C in fruit juice, or Ammonium Chloride to acidify urine to promote sequestration and removal of amphetamine metabolites. I'm not sure if/how that translates to other drugs like Psilocybin, but it does raise some interesting questions. Do you by any chance have a source regarding the original "enhances the experience" statement? (for my own curiosity really - I'm not saying that you're wrong or misinformed) [1] http://books.google.com/books?id=_m7gPani5D4C&lpg=PA124&dq=MDMA%20metabolism%20vitamin%20C&pg=PA124#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=_m7gPani5D4C&lpg=PA124&...

edtechre 15y ago

How is that enlightening? The doc makes you sound like an imbecile.

MarkPNeyer 15y ago
the main thing i took out of the experience was that i should stop being so afraid of suffering, because suffering can lead to personal growth. also, realizing i didn't need a girlfriend to be happy was really big deal for me.
- edtechre 15y ago
  Instead of doing drugs to experience "enlightenment" (LOL), you could, I don't know... read a book and actually learn something of value.
  - MarkPNeyer 15y ago
    is there a reason you keep using the word 'enlightenment'? if you don't see any value in learning that suffering isn't always bad, i think i understand your attitude a little better.
  - edtechre 15y ago
    I have no issue with whatever it is you posited after your masturbatory experience. It's just that I don't find your epiphany particularly deep, nor do I see how LSD was even necessary for you to arrive at your destination of nowhere. You know what actually makes a difference in life? Acquire knowledge, apply that knowledge, make connections and use all of that to HELP other people and change the world. Tripping on shrooms by yourself or with your fellow dunderheads does nothing for anyone, yourself included. Stop pretending it does.
    - MarkPNeyer 15y ago
      if you are correct that my use of mushrooms has not and will not do anything for anyone, why are you telling me this? if anyone reads what you have written and benefits from your insight, then you must have been wrong - because you wouldn't have written what you did if i hadn't posted this document detailing my experience with mushrooms.
    - pyre 15y ago
      > You know what actually makes a difference in life? Taking action makes a difference in life. People don't take action just for its own sake. They have motivations. Where do this motivations come from? Ultimately the mind. The mind can be influenced by books and general knowledge, as well as experiences. Do you contest that if one did the same thing twice (once on drugs, the other not) that those experiences would different? Who's to say that the experience on the drugs can't be the one that inspires someone to do something with their life (or in this case, to alter their way of viewing the world)? You? What authority do you have in such a field? What are you credentials to make such proclamations?
      - edtechre 15y ago
        You could claim the same about getting high off of glue since that affects the mind too. Seriously, what every day experience /doesn't/ affect your mind? My point stands on its own. Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does nothing for anyone. End.
        lhnz 15y ago
        So your argument is that (1) since every drug/substance/experience affects your mind everything is the same, (2) consuming something does not create so therefore has no utility to anybody: the only utility is 'taking action'. These points do not stand on their own. Everything might affect your mind but that doesn't mean that every experience is the same. Consuming something may not make a difference to other people's lives, but it might give direct utility to yourself (for example eating food, drinking water, reading a book, watching a film.) This article was about an increase in openness. If you become more open as a result of doing something then indirectly your future actions might hold more utility to the people that you affect.
  - lhnz 15y ago
    It's interesting to me that you believe you can achieve the same kind of inner thoughts from reading books. There are many people here that have come out from trips feeling more enlightened than when they entered them. Remember also that you are in the comments for an article about a study in which it is said to increase openness. You're telling people that it won't enlighten? Do you disagree with the results of the study? The belief you're holding is too strong since you've not been able to demonstrate any evidence for it.
  - jinfiesto 15y ago
    Lol, I don't think it's enlightenment, but I experienced the feeling without drugs first. In the Buddhist tradition, it's known as kensho or satori (technically different, but similar enough for our purposes.) In either case, it's definitely worthwhile and can't be learned from a book.
steve_b 15y ago
That's pretty harsh. I bet you Huxley's original notes for Doors Of Perception were probably jumbled too. But both DoP and Mark's notes allude to the same thing: without a valve on our consciousness, we'd just sit around all day and be blown away by the creases in our jeans. Edit: oh ya, and thanks for sharing Mark.
- hartror 15y ago
  Seconded, thanks for sharing Mark. A number of friends have gone through life altering trips such as you describe, there appear to be positive things that can be gleaned from psychedelics about oneself. That said I had one friend who didn't come back and ended up in an institution for a period of months. He had a number of underlying issues that the drug brought to the fore. It was a horrible experience for all involved.
  - Radix 15y ago
    Would you elaborate on this? Did he come out of it twelve months in? it's rare to find negative commentary on psilocybin on the internet. Only a couple warnings in the thread now.
    - wellsaid 15y ago
      Unfortunately I think the Internet is biased toward good feedback about psychedelics because those who had problems either: - lost interest in psychedelics, - hate to write about it, - are not able to write about it, - don't want anyone to know they were "mad" once
    - hartror 15y ago
      He took some at a party I was at and freaked out. I nursed him for a few hours, he babbled the same phrase over and over until his housemates came and picked him up. I've been told since that he had freaked out before and had been fine once he came down so they treated this incident the same. Took him home and sat with him till he calmed down and put him to bed. The next morning he was still acting strangely, not making sense etc. They kept an eye on him that day figuring he was just tired and worn out. But the next day he was worse so they got him into a psych hospital after some difficulty (he wouldn't go at first). He was put on anti-psychotics and stayed there for a couple of months. He was released back into his parent's care, he is from the UK and this happened in Australia. So he went back to the UK and reportedly has found god and is doing fine. (apart from the religion thing ;)
wynand 15y ago
Please avoid personal remarks. It's alright to disagree strongly with someone else but mutual respect is one of the attributes that keeps HN an open and interesting discussion forum.
mannicken 15y ago
You're missing the point here. The author was typing from a world where only a few have been, where things melt into the floor, music turns into objects, objects turns into people, and your mind is on a huge emotional rollercoaster. Imagine being fired, then getting a date, then you remember your sister died (many years ago), then you realize you are awesome, then you feel AWFUL because you said something you shouldn't have at that party two months ago, then you realize everything is actually one whirling organism of energy and you can never die, then you hear loud noises and think it's the cops and get scared. All of this in a very very short span of time. You start sketching or typing and you realize you can see blood flowing through your hands, and then you realize you're actually an animal for whom it's hard to form coherent thoughts because everything is just so wobbly and undefined. Then you become amazed at how human language is actually a form of learned "symbols->sounds" synesthesia. And writing is "sound->visuals" synesthesia. People have pissed their pants from fear on psychedelics, the fact that the author of the document was able to jot down his experience is a remarkable addition to the knowledge of humans.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

tiles 15y ago

Thanks for sharing this. This is literally a legal proxy for understanding what kind of changes the article is talking about, so I think this is plenty relevant :)

fybren 15y ago
Agreed. Also - thoroughly entertaining & just, real. Thank you for sharing, Mark.

throwaway7-2521 15y ago

Somewhat odd to have used OJ as the mixer; vitamin-C is often considered to accelerate the breakdown of psychoactive substances (especially those like MDMA and LSD), so would normally be avoided until you feel you're 'done' and want things to end.

sophacles 15y ago
I've always been told it enhances the experience... Anyway, it doesn't follow that faster breakdown makes the trip end... could be that the very process of breaking down the active substance produces the effects desired, and the vitamin-C acts as a catalyst to "even out" the experience.
- shabble 15y ago
  You might be confusing the OJ/vitamin C with the properties of grapefruit juice, which is well-established to alter the properties of various liver enzymes, particularly those which typically metabolise psychedelic / hallucinogenic drugs. Wikipedia has a brief blurb about it: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_drugs_affected_by_grapefruit https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_drugs... Actually, it does mention orange juice as containing flavonoids which may have some (albeit lesser) effect on drug metabolism.
  - sophacles 15y ago
    Fair enough, but doesn't Grapefruit Juice contain a high vitamin C content also?
    - shabble 15y ago
      Yeah. Actually, it looks like there is mention in the literature (Simon Wills Drugs of abuse, 2nd Ed, 2005)[1] of vitamin C in fruit juice, or Ammonium Chloride to acidify urine to promote sequestration and removal of amphetamine metabolites. I'm not sure if/how that translates to other drugs like Psilocybin, but it does raise some interesting questions. Do you by any chance have a source regarding the original "enhances the experience" statement? (for my own curiosity really - I'm not saying that you're wrong or misinformed) [1] http://books.google.com/books?id=_m7gPani5D4C&lpg=PA124&dq=MDMA%20metabolism%20vitamin%20C&pg=PA124#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=_m7gPani5D4C&lpg=PA124&...