3 ms·

The east cost for the most part doesn't have these problems or at least not to the same extent (with a couple exceptions for Philly and NYC both of which are no

The east cost for the most part doesn't have these problems or at least not to the same extent (with a couple exceptions for Philly and NYC both of which are nowhere near as bad as cities in CA/OR/WA) This isn't an American problem. This isn't even a liberal/conservative problem. This is a west coast problem.

colinmhayes 5y ago
The east coast is cold. The homeless leave. It's hard for me to blame west coast policy when it's really just the weather that's the difference.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  Your theory entirely falls apart when you acknowledge that there are warm places in the country that don't have large homeless populations.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Yes, homeless people want to live near wealthy people who don't mind being surrounded by the homeless. Most large cities in the US have this, but sunbelt ones typically are more conservative and therefore harsher on the homeless. There are of course many other reasons why homeless leave too. Harsh summers, car dominant culture are obvious ones.
  - Aloha 5y ago
    Yes, warm places, which in exchange for not having a brutal winter, have a brutal summer. It seems to me that all 'temperate' locations, do have a huge homeless issue, Summer in Texas is enough to drive the homeless away.
    - 0_____0 5y ago
      But that's simply not true. Much of the Southeast US is considered a temperate climate, and homelessness is not an acute problem like it is on the west coast. Miami, while humid, doesn't often get above the low 90s and has one of the lowest homeless-per-capita rates of cities in the US. The entire European Mediterranean region has similar weather to the Western US and doesn't have the same homelessness issue. Lake Tahoe, Chicago, NYC, Vancouver hit freezing in the winter and do have homelessness. I think it's easier to permit homelessness when people don't freeze to death or become heat casualties, but the causes are way more complex than the weather being nice year round.
      - Aloha 5y ago
        You try living outside in the Southeast during winter, and tell me how temperate it is.
        Aloha 5y ago
        Winter or Summer.
        0_____0 5y ago
        It's definitely on the edge of the 'temperate' classification.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    The Los Angeles metro population would rank fifth largest were its own state. San Francisco's is similar to the size of Louisiana's. Population density matters when talking about the visibility of homeless people, even before getting to how stupidly expensive those places are.
hirundo 5y ago
We have a similar problem with bark beetles in pinyon pine trees in the southwest. The theory I heard is that when winters don't get cold enough, too few of the beetles die off, and many pinyons can't handle the additional parasite load. The trees die and huge swaths of forest burn up.
0_____0 5y ago
It strikes me that the dysfunction stretches across state and country borders. The issues you see in San Diego and San Francisco are the exact same ones you see in Vancouver. I'm in Massachusetts now, and as a west-east transplant I'm amazed at the stuff that just works. Cycle paths get built, housing gets built, state social and health services are extant and useful. I'm sort of at a loss to explain the difference.
- jmole 5y ago
  new money vs. old money i guess. perhaps the same reason that it's really hard for me to view SF as a "real city" after living in NY for a few years. Even with all the money moving around in the bay area, so little of it actually makes its way back to the built environment.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    NYC in many ways is "America's Only Real City." Seems like every other major city went for the 'burbs in the postwar period and ended up kneecapping their growth.
- Aloha 5y ago
  The lack (or reduced teeth) of CEQA equivalents help, NEPA like laws make it hard to build things. https://ceq.doe.gov/laws-regulations/states.html https://ceq.doe.gov/laws-regulations/states.html The fact that CEQA applies to all levels of government in California makes it easier to throw sand in the gears. Similarly there is too much good government sometimes, too much accountability makes it hard to accomplish anything. Too little means corruption is hard to root out. There is less accountability in the east overall in bureaucracy - any state not hit hard by the progressive revolution of the early 20th century seems to be better at doing thing. I see more community focused expectations of behavior on the east coast (There is more of an expectation that everyone ought to behave a certain way, and do certain things in certain places). There are other cultural differences too, east coast residents in my first hand experience tend to be more apt look the other way at penny ante corruption (the stereotypical "I know a guy.." culture), which somewhat perversely makes government more flexible work better. Generally the less moral imperative government has, the better it works. I realize these are probably not popular opinions.
askafriend 5y ago
Have you thought of the weather....
- 0_____0 5y ago
  Lots of places in the country/worldwide have good weather and little to no homelessness.
chaostheory 5y ago
Well many non West Coast cities ship their homeless to other parts of the country like the West Coast https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

colinmhayes 5y ago

The east coast is cold. The homeless leave. It's hard for me to blame west coast policy when it's really just the weather that's the difference.

0_____0 5y ago
Your theory entirely falls apart when you acknowledge that there are warm places in the country that don't have large homeless populations.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Yes, homeless people want to live near wealthy people who don't mind being surrounded by the homeless. Most large cities in the US have this, but sunbelt ones typically are more conservative and therefore harsher on the homeless. There are of course many other reasons why homeless leave too. Harsh summers, car dominant culture are obvious ones.
- Aloha 5y ago
  Yes, warm places, which in exchange for not having a brutal winter, have a brutal summer. It seems to me that all 'temperate' locations, do have a huge homeless issue, Summer in Texas is enough to drive the homeless away.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    But that's simply not true. Much of the Southeast US is considered a temperate climate, and homelessness is not an acute problem like it is on the west coast. Miami, while humid, doesn't often get above the low 90s and has one of the lowest homeless-per-capita rates of cities in the US. The entire European Mediterranean region has similar weather to the Western US and doesn't have the same homelessness issue. Lake Tahoe, Chicago, NYC, Vancouver hit freezing in the winter and do have homelessness. I think it's easier to permit homelessness when people don't freeze to death or become heat casualties, but the causes are way more complex than the weather being nice year round.
    - Aloha 5y ago
      You try living outside in the Southeast during winter, and tell me how temperate it is.
      - Aloha 5y ago
        Winter or Summer.
      - 0_____0 5y ago
        It's definitely on the edge of the 'temperate' classification.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  The Los Angeles metro population would rank fifth largest were its own state. San Francisco's is similar to the size of Louisiana's. Population density matters when talking about the visibility of homeless people, even before getting to how stupidly expensive those places are.

hirundo 5y ago

We have a similar problem with bark beetles in pinyon pine trees in the southwest. The theory I heard is that when winters don't get cold enough, too few of the beetles die off, and many pinyons can't handle the additional parasite load. The trees die and huge swaths of forest burn up.

0_____0 5y ago

It strikes me that the dysfunction stretches across state and country borders. The issues you see in San Diego and San Francisco are the exact same ones you see in Vancouver. I'm in Massachusetts now, and as a west-east transplant I'm amazed at the stuff that just works. Cycle paths get built, housing gets built, state social and health services are extant and useful. I'm sort of at a loss to explain the difference.

jmole 5y ago
new money vs. old money i guess. perhaps the same reason that it's really hard for me to view SF as a "real city" after living in NY for a few years. Even with all the money moving around in the bay area, so little of it actually makes its way back to the built environment.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  NYC in many ways is "America's Only Real City." Seems like every other major city went for the 'burbs in the postwar period and ended up kneecapping their growth.
Aloha 5y ago
The lack (or reduced teeth) of CEQA equivalents help, NEPA like laws make it hard to build things. https://ceq.doe.gov/laws-regulations/states.html https://ceq.doe.gov/laws-regulations/states.html The fact that CEQA applies to all levels of government in California makes it easier to throw sand in the gears. Similarly there is too much good government sometimes, too much accountability makes it hard to accomplish anything. Too little means corruption is hard to root out. There is less accountability in the east overall in bureaucracy - any state not hit hard by the progressive revolution of the early 20th century seems to be better at doing thing. I see more community focused expectations of behavior on the east coast (There is more of an expectation that everyone ought to behave a certain way, and do certain things in certain places). There are other cultural differences too, east coast residents in my first hand experience tend to be more apt look the other way at penny ante corruption (the stereotypical "I know a guy.." culture), which somewhat perversely makes government more flexible work better. Generally the less moral imperative government has, the better it works. I realize these are probably not popular opinions.

askafriend 5y ago

Have you thought of the weather....

0_____0 5y ago
Lots of places in the country/worldwide have good weather and little to no homelessness.

chaostheory 5y ago

Well many non West Coast cities ship their homeless to other parts of the country like the West Coast https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...