4 ms·

What is the temperature differential problem? (I think many mushrooms are pretty happy fruiting at ~70F room temperature, as is cannabis. Is it that the grow

by cwkoss 5y ago

What is the temperature differential problem? (I think many mushrooms are pretty happy fruiting at ~70F room temperature, as is cannabis. Is it that the grow lights fight the humidity needs of the mushrooms? Or do the species of mushrooms you're using have different temperature needs? Or the cannabis grows faster as temperature increases? I've only worked with shiitake and oyster, and got poor results with one lions mane attempt so... definitely not an expert)

AngryData 5y ago
I just want to add, if people are upgrading to LEDs they will have a drop in yield unless they raise room temperatures to 80F or more so there is still a temperature differential, although to me it seems relatively minor especially using heat exchangers. The high efficiency of LED grow lights means leaf temperatures are much lower so room temperature must go up to compensate.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  I wonder if the root zone needs the warmth too, or if its just the aerial parts of the plant that needs the warmth for optimal growth. Maybe plastic with holes for each stem could be used to insulate the aerial airspace from the root airspace and then a small heatpump could make that 10F differential with relatively low power cost.
- samstave 5y ago
  Super interesting. I wonder what the baseline is btwn the two ; How dependent on heat is the "fruitful" nature of the plant vs the subsitance livability of the plant? i.e. Min temp for survival vs min temp to fruit and the balance between... What is the coldest one can keep a plant while maintaining max fruiting output?
- samstave 5y ago
  holy crap. Just hear me out ; --- What if the human genome code diffs based on pro-longed temp differentials in host biology (meaning if the in-utero mother was in a prolonged colder climate, which altered the passed on DNA) So"cooking" dna is a real thing, May one be able to "calcify" information into DNA based on temp? Science fiction galore!
elasticventures 5y ago
cannabis can grow very fast in the right conditions. mushrooms can grow very fast in the right conditions. so ... I suppose if you live in a place .. like Merica 70F/21c (or are you Liberian?) .. anyway, that 70F is 'golden temperature band' conducive to growing most anything. YES both species could co-exist without a lot of complication, neither will thrive, but neither will probably die. 70F - I think that's like Vista, CA. has the ideal 'most stable' temperature in the US. .. but real-estate is super expensive, so to have that you must live in a nice place, with good weather and blabla, "it's not farm-land", .. also if you need something you probably just order it from Amazon and it shows up a day later. RE: Cannabis 'optimal yield' .. i.e. we both get the 'same' genetics, from the same bank, which of us could grow a better plant? The environmental conditions + light + soil motility (or hydro) all contribute to phenotype expression, not just life cycle, .. over the life, the air-flow rate for transpiration, light fluence, all those must be in balance -- MOST cannabis per it's name 'weed' is quite hardy, but you'll get different phenotype expression, if you have poor ventilation, o2 build-up (low co2), that can shock/stress the plant, it won't be as dense (i.e. if you are sea level vs. growing on a mountain) .. if you start changing it's environment you'll see the plant changes a lot, also using hormones, other approaches there are a lot of ways to boost yield (also, NEVER for example put Flower/Rose grow accelerate on your cannabis, it becomes cancer causing toxic when smoked! and this is why 'dark market' cannabis is so dangerous). Some cannabis growers buy industrial Co2 tanks and pipe that into their greenhouses, especially in places where they are limited to how many plants they can legally grow in a space, -- so it's known to use co2 helps to turn over bigger crops faster (the co2 comes from petroleum, and it makes me sick to think they're just dumping it into the atmosphere). I've seen growers using co2 do as many as ~6 full cycles per year (sort of like raising chickens indoors using lights).. so I wanted an organic source of Co2 from either brewing yeast and/or mushrooms! (NOTE: this is NOT cost competitive, petroleum based co2 is basically free) Because .. MOST growers, most farmers in general are pretty lazy, and "don't mess with it" since plants have evolved over hundreds of millions of years to exist on earth in the present climate. Most* 'farmers' aren't scientists, they are inclined to let nature be nature and give up control of existential co-factors, beyond water, fertilizer, greenhouse structure. This is really easy, probably 'best' if you live in ideal climate zone, nature takes care of most of this for you -- I grew up in San Diego, CA. aside from water, the SoCal weather is extremely conducive to growing .. always 70F. US Farmers are often religious, and in this case, the religion is necessary because all they can do is pray for good weather, and (so I've been told) that seems to be working so far! Alas, I do not live in Merica anymore, .. I'm an Expat! I (intentionally) live someplace else, and having left the US my prayers are no longer answered. I left the US because I don't want to live in an anocracy (failed democracy), and at this point, perhaps in my lifetime the US will collapse into civil war, and the subsequent religious state that would emerge, it's not someplace I want to live. I mostly blame Regan, but I do miss the weather in San Diego. Alas, I digress. My point is: praying for crops only seems to work in America, mostly where there is already good weather & therefore better churches. Now, something most American's don't realize is that MOST of the people on the planet Earth, they live in a place where the weather is already unpleasant (I assume, because god hates non-Americas), and also mostly attributed to America, the non-American weather is only going to get worse (more extreme). Our ecosystem of plants & fungi - stuff that used to grow -- the truth is it already doesn't grow as well as it did for our grand-parents, and in the future, well who knows, .. indoor growing 'sheltered farming', controlling temperature, when it's all ~70F US (i.e. Los Angeles), farming there isn't hard, maybe the soil is bad,whaha, add some lime to break up your clay, then keep dumping yer high nitrogen fertilizer till it gets into your lakes & rivers .. or at least until we hit peak phosphorous and you can't buy/afford fertilizer .. that's maybe ~10-20 years but alas, I digress. American's don't realize how much easier agriculture is IN AMERICA (it's really got excellent climate, overall for it's size) .. again, this is attributed mostly to prayer & good weather from all the farmers praying. But for me -- I presently live in a place that is known for it's extreme temperature & humidity, not uncommon to have a 10(c) flux in an hour, etc. We aren't religious here, or at least not extremely religious like America, and everybody gets to vote (or they pay a fine), and all the votes get counted, and everybody is really respectful to each-other despite being secular. HOWEVER neither species we've discussed is presently legal where I am .. so as an foreigner, the punishments for being caught would be extremely unpleasant, bordering on "life destroying" (and ultimately I would be sent BACK to America). So everything must be stealth, covert, blabla, and it's even illegal to touch electrical wire unless I'm a licensed electrician out of over-zealous concern for fire. .. hint: as an immigrant, I'm not licensed to do anything. FML. With agriculture being a biological process, it's innately a markov chain, each action, any discrete failure, impacts the rest of the chain, the organism gets stressed, it doesn't grow as well, maybe it fruits early, or not at all. The /optimal/ growing conditions for cannabis & fungi are known to be different. Once the HVAC systems are interconnected between two systems, the number of variables which can grow horribly wrong, and where balancing one impacts the other. Add more factors, such as experimenting with different cultivation cycles & processes, etc. the combined system(s) doesn't lend itself to micro-scale 'experimentation', .. interconnecting the two systems in a way they can co-exist, in theory, simple, in practice, not as simple. In practice you need a lot of sensors, automation, climate buffer zones, and/or patience & dealing with disappointment. fwiw - I am trying to figure out how to micro-scale & automate the control systems. So if anybody says "yeah, this is easy" please show me how. I am designing a system I would like to take to Mars colony (not interested in the moon) and I basically don't see how NASA or SpaceX can build a sustainable mars colony without using fungi/Eukaryotes. Finally -- for those who made it to the bottom of this post. Fwiw mushrooms, i.e. oyster, reshi, can supposedly grow EXTREMELY FAST, like ~20x faster than 'normal' using high voltage stimulus, or potentially similar effects using cold-plasma) .. papers & studies, also look up 'fairy rings' where mushrooms grow in a circle after a lightning strike -- (this has been 'anecdotally' known for thousands of years).
samstave 5y ago
I kave a crazy idea ; Backstory when I was on design team for UCSF... I met a gene designer who built a system of being able to funnel genes to stem cells in a method of allowing said genes to express based on what prteins exposed to... The idea being "ne may produce X gene to stem cell, and thus may determine how this stem cell will express" Meaning :what do we feed a stem cell as far as proteins are concerned, in order to make these stem cell express as [kidney] or - [insert-organ-cell-type-here]
- elasticventures 5y ago
  ooh, yes plz. i'll take a large order of both motor & memory neurons plz. could i get them without surgery? i think the delivery mechanism for stem cell tech is sufficiently complex that it is reserved only for explicitly necessary procedures and regrettably by present day medical definitions that is 'urgently life threatening' so the idea of growing another kidney or whatever, unlikely. besides, it'll probably be easier to grow meat kidneys outside the body and then surgically implant them.

by cwkoss 5y ago

AngryData 5y ago

I just want to add, if people are upgrading to LEDs they will have a drop in yield unless they raise room temperatures to 80F or more so there is still a temperature differential, although to me it seems relatively minor especially using heat exchangers. The high efficiency of LED grow lights means leaf temperatures are much lower so room temperature must go up to compensate.

cwkoss 5y ago
I wonder if the root zone needs the warmth too, or if its just the aerial parts of the plant that needs the warmth for optimal growth. Maybe plastic with holes for each stem could be used to insulate the aerial airspace from the root airspace and then a small heatpump could make that 10F differential with relatively low power cost.
samstave 5y ago
Super interesting. I wonder what the baseline is btwn the two ; How dependent on heat is the "fruitful" nature of the plant vs the subsitance livability of the plant? i.e. Min temp for survival vs min temp to fruit and the balance between... What is the coldest one can keep a plant while maintaining max fruiting output?
samstave 5y ago
holy crap. Just hear me out ; --- What if the human genome code diffs based on pro-longed temp differentials in host biology (meaning if the in-utero mother was in a prolonged colder climate, which altered the passed on DNA) So"cooking" dna is a real thing, May one be able to "calcify" information into DNA based on temp? Science fiction galore!

elasticventures 5y ago

cannabis can grow very fast in the right conditions. mushrooms can grow very fast in the right conditions. so ... I suppose if you live in a place .. like Merica 70F/21c (or are you Liberian?) .. anyway, that 70F is 'golden temperature band' conducive to growing most anything. YES both species could co-exist without a lot of complication, neither will thrive, but neither will probably die. 70F - I think that's like Vista, CA. has the ideal 'most stable' temperature in the US. .. but real-estate is super expensive, so to have that you must live in a nice place, with good weather and blabla, "it's not farm-land", .. also if you need something you probably just order it from Amazon and it shows up a day later. RE: Cannabis 'optimal yield' .. i.e. we both get the 'same' genetics, from the same bank, which of us could grow a better plant? The environmental conditions + light + soil motility (or hydro) all contribute to phenotype expression, not just life cycle, .. over the life, the air-flow rate for transpiration, light fluence, all those must be in balance -- MOST cannabis per it's name 'weed' is quite hardy, but you'll get different phenotype expression, if you have poor ventilation, o2 build-up (low co2), that can shock/stress the plant, it won't be as dense (i.e. if you are sea level vs. growing on a mountain) .. if you start changing it's environment you'll see the plant changes a lot, also using hormones, other approaches there are a lot of ways to boost yield (also, NEVER for example put Flower/Rose grow accelerate on your cannabis, it becomes cancer causing toxic when smoked! and this is why 'dark market' cannabis is so dangerous). Some cannabis growers buy industrial Co2 tanks and pipe that into their greenhouses, especially in places where they are limited to how many plants they can legally grow in a space, -- so it's known to use co2 helps to turn over bigger crops faster (the co2 comes from petroleum, and it makes me sick to think they're just dumping it into the atmosphere). I've seen growers using co2 do as many as ~6 full cycles per year (sort of like raising chickens indoors using lights).. so I wanted an organic source of Co2 from either brewing yeast and/or mushrooms! (NOTE: this is NOT cost competitive, petroleum based co2 is basically free) Because .. MOST growers, most farmers in general are pretty lazy, and "don't mess with it" since plants have evolved over hundreds of millions of years to exist on earth in the present climate. Most* 'farmers' aren't scientists, they are inclined to let nature be nature and give up control of existential co-factors, beyond water, fertilizer, greenhouse structure. This is really easy, probably 'best' if you live in ideal climate zone, nature takes care of most of this for you -- I grew up in San Diego, CA. aside from water, the SoCal weather is extremely conducive to growing .. always 70F. US Farmers are often religious, and in this case, the religion is necessary because all they can do is pray for good weather, and (so I've been told) that seems to be working so far! Alas, I do not live in Merica anymore, .. I'm an Expat! I (intentionally) live someplace else, and having left the US my prayers are no longer answered. I left the US because I don't want to live in an anocracy (failed democracy), and at this point, perhaps in my lifetime the US will collapse into civil war, and the subsequent religious state that would emerge, it's not someplace I want to live. I mostly blame Regan, but I do miss the weather in San Diego. Alas, I digress. My point is: praying for crops only seems to work in America, mostly where there is already good weather & therefore better churches. Now, something most American's don't realize is that MOST of the people on the planet Earth, they live in a place where the weather is already unpleasant (I assume, because god hates non-Americas), and also mostly attributed to America, the non-American weather is only going to get worse (more extreme). Our ecosystem of plants & fungi - stuff that used to grow -- the truth is it already doesn't grow as well as it did for our grand-parents, and in the future, well who knows, .. indoor growing 'sheltered farming', controlling temperature, when it's all ~70F US (i.e. Los Angeles), farming there isn't hard, maybe the soil is bad,whaha, add some lime to break up your clay, then keep dumping yer high nitrogen fertilizer till it gets into your lakes & rivers .. or at least until we hit peak phosphorous and you can't buy/afford fertilizer .. that's maybe ~10-20 years but alas, I digress. American's don't realize how much easier agriculture is IN AMERICA (it's really got excellent climate, overall for it's size) .. again, this is attributed mostly to prayer & good weather from all the farmers praying. But for me -- I presently live in a place that is known for it's extreme temperature & humidity, not uncommon to have a 10(c) flux in an hour, etc. We aren't religious here, or at least not extremely religious like America, and everybody gets to vote (or they pay a fine), and all the votes get counted, and everybody is really respectful to each-other despite being secular. HOWEVER neither species we've discussed is presently legal where I am .. so as an foreigner, the punishments for being caught would be extremely unpleasant, bordering on "life destroying" (and ultimately I would be sent BACK to America). So everything must be stealth, covert, blabla, and it's even illegal to touch electrical wire unless I'm a licensed electrician out of over-zealous concern for fire. .. hint: as an immigrant, I'm not licensed to do anything. FML. With agriculture being a biological process, it's innately a markov chain, each action, any discrete failure, impacts the rest of the chain, the organism gets stressed, it doesn't grow as well, maybe it fruits early, or not at all. The /optimal/ growing conditions for cannabis & fungi are known to be different. Once the HVAC systems are interconnected between two systems, the number of variables which can grow horribly wrong, and where balancing one impacts the other. Add more factors, such as experimenting with different cultivation cycles & processes, etc. the combined system(s) doesn't lend itself to micro-scale 'experimentation', .. interconnecting the two systems in a way they can co-exist, in theory, simple, in practice, not as simple. In practice you need a lot of sensors, automation, climate buffer zones, and/or patience & dealing with disappointment. fwiw - I am trying to figure out how to micro-scale & automate the control systems. So if anybody says "yeah, this is easy" please show me how. I am designing a system I would like to take to Mars colony (not interested in the moon) and I basically don't see how NASA or SpaceX can build a sustainable mars colony without using fungi/Eukaryotes. Finally -- for those who made it to the bottom of this post. Fwiw mushrooms, i.e. oyster, reshi, can supposedly grow EXTREMELY FAST, like ~20x faster than 'normal' using high voltage stimulus, or potentially similar effects using cold-plasma) .. papers & studies, also look up 'fairy rings' where mushrooms grow in a circle after a lightning strike -- (this has been 'anecdotally' known for thousands of years).

samstave 5y ago

I kave a crazy idea ; Backstory when I was on design team for UCSF... I met a gene designer who built a system of being able to funnel genes to stem cells in a method of allowing said genes to express based on what prteins exposed to... The idea being "ne may produce X gene to stem cell, and thus may determine how this stem cell will express" Meaning :what do we feed a stem cell as far as proteins are concerned, in order to make these stem cell express as [kidney] or - [insert-organ-cell-type-here]

elasticventures 5y ago
ooh, yes plz. i'll take a large order of both motor & memory neurons plz. could i get them without surgery? i think the delivery mechanism for stem cell tech is sufficiently complex that it is reserved only for explicitly necessary procedures and regrettably by present day medical definitions that is 'urgently life threatening' so the idea of growing another kidney or whatever, unlikely. besides, it'll probably be easier to grow meat kidneys outside the body and then surgically implant them.