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To be clear, I am not defending the action of the police, only the logic of the implication that the police are unjustly conspiring to limit free speech and oth

To be clear, I am not defending the action of the police, only the logic of the implication that the police are unjustly conspiring to limit free speech and otherwise peaceful protest. >>What's being burned down as of late in the last month?>> I would suggest that that is pretty much the definition of being proactive. There was violence in the past, quite a bit, and maybe now actions are being taken to head it off in the future. >>Nothing, but these surveillance programs persist.>> Yes because it happened in the past. >>Everyone complains about the riots but never the systems that bring them about.>> "the systems that bring them about"? This is vague. What systems? Assuming we could parse out exactly what you're talking about, are you suggesting that the violence and destruction of private and public property is justified because the "the systems" have a problem?

vkou 5y ago
> What systems? Unaccountable police that can get away with murder unless the entire country starts rioting for two months. Those systems. The systems that let an officer strangle a man to death, while all his peers stand by and watch it happen, and then they all file a police report of 'we responded to a medical emergency, patient died on the scene'. Nothing about these systems has changed since 2020. The police are above the law, and they act to take full advantage of it. That's what people have been protesting about. Most police departments responded to the protests by... Continuing to do the same things that are being protested.
- pstuart 5y ago
  And of course when the talk of violence comes up in regards to protest, it's important to recognize that in many cases that violence is instigated by agents provocateur in order to delegitimize said protest. Case in point: https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/02/whats-up-with-umbrella-man/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/02/whats-up-with-umbre...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
toofy 5y ago
Currently two posts above this, the person says: > To paraphrase MLK, riots are the voice of the unheard. When we, as a society, fail to listen to the plight of our neighbors, violence is the result. And now the post im replying to asserts that the systemic claims are too vague. Asserts this despite the decades and decades worth of detailed discussions on this exact topic. Asserts it’s too vague despite thousands of songs from every musical genre. Many of them absolute household known top of the chart hits. Hundreds of plays, series, and movies on the topic. Despite the libraries worth of books which have been written on the topic—nope, too vague. Somehow this poster still asserts the problem is too vague for them. MLK indeed: > Riots are the language of the unheard.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Hearing is easy enough, if you can be bothered at all. That would be legitimate prevention.
uncomputation 5y ago
> I would suggest that that is pretty much the definition of being proactive. So, now we are surveilling people for precrime? The police are able to track your cell phone and put you on watch lists because you protested or are even suspected of protesting? This is authoritarianism plain and simple, a militarized police force way out of scope. Violence is bad, and surveillance is also bad, and we should not treat people as criminals until - and no sooner - they have committed a crime they have been lawfully convicted of.
- sdb0 5y ago
  Yes the police can and do try to predict crime
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    That is beyond their remit, if applied to individuals. They could do a much better job predicting and preventing their own crimes. They have no constitutional limits on that, yet are extraordinarily bad at it.

vkou 5y ago

> What systems? Unaccountable police that can get away with murder unless the entire country starts rioting for two months. Those systems. The systems that let an officer strangle a man to death, while all his peers stand by and watch it happen, and then they all file a police report of 'we responded to a medical emergency, patient died on the scene'. Nothing about these systems has changed since 2020. The police are above the law, and they act to take full advantage of it. That's what people have been protesting about. Most police departments responded to the protests by... Continuing to do the same things that are being protested.

pstuart 5y ago
And of course when the talk of violence comes up in regards to protest, it's important to recognize that in many cases that violence is instigated by agents provocateur in order to delegitimize said protest. Case in point: https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/02/whats-up-with-umbrella-man/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/02/whats-up-with-umbre...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

toofy 5y ago

Currently two posts above this, the person says: > To paraphrase MLK, riots are the voice of the unheard. When we, as a society, fail to listen to the plight of our neighbors, violence is the result. And now the post im replying to asserts that the systemic claims are too vague. Asserts this despite the decades and decades worth of detailed discussions on this exact topic. Asserts it’s too vague despite thousands of songs from every musical genre. Many of them absolute household known top of the chart hits. Hundreds of plays, series, and movies on the topic. Despite the libraries worth of books which have been written on the topic—nope, too vague. Somehow this poster still asserts the problem is too vague for them. MLK indeed: > Riots are the language of the unheard.

ncmncm 5y ago
Hearing is easy enough, if you can be bothered at all. That would be legitimate prevention.

uncomputation 5y ago

> I would suggest that that is pretty much the definition of being proactive. So, now we are surveilling people for precrime? The police are able to track your cell phone and put you on watch lists because you protested or are even suspected of protesting? This is authoritarianism plain and simple, a militarized police force way out of scope. Violence is bad, and surveillance is also bad, and we should not treat people as criminals until - and no sooner - they have committed a crime they have been lawfully convicted of.

sdb0 5y ago
Yes the police can and do try to predict crime
- ncmncm 5y ago
  That is beyond their remit, if applied to individuals. They could do a much better job predicting and preventing their own crimes. They have no constitutional limits on that, yet are extraordinarily bad at it.