4 ms·

Classism is definitely more pervasive in the UK than the US. This is one part of the story about the dominance of US in tech... during WWII, seems people in the

Classism is definitely more pervasive in the UK than the US. This is one part of the story about the dominance of US in tech... during WWII, seems people in the UK were too busy waging war to bother as much with classism. War ends, and people with the "right breeding" come in and take over some of the tech projects, rather than the people with the right skills. Paradoxically, working in tech is seen as somewhat low-class. Keep in mind that this is a simplification, it's only part of the story, and it's a story about a particular time in UK history, and I'm not trying to draw larger conclusions about meritocracy in the US and UK. (Should go without saying.) Also note that the narrative of British technological "decline", often cited as lasting from 1870-1970, is usually quite exaggerated and distorted. Entire books have been written on the subject. Classism is a piece of the puzzle but history defies simple explanations.

brimble 5y ago
> Paradoxically, working in tech is seen as somewhat low-class. Fussell (though writing about the US) may have some insight here. For one thing, working is kinda low-class; for another, being concerned about the latest-and-greatest of technology is, separately, kinda low-class. He writes (I'm paraphrasing) that American old money is more likely to drive a 30-year-old truck, to have ancient kitchen appliances, maybe even fairly old entertainment-related electronics, than to have a flashy new sports car and top-end appliances—because caring about new technology is "low", so is something those sorts of people have been socialized not to care about (much of it's the "help's" problem, anyway, after all). The US has a similar thing going on, along the "working/professional/upper" axis: many programmers make "professional" levels of money (e.g. doctor, lawyer, upper management at mid-level corporations, that kind of thing) but as a society we seem to have decided it's not proper to treat them as professionals, so they remain working-class in many respects (along with actual engineers).
- klodolph 5y ago
  Yes, there's a lot of similar stuff going on in the US. However, the new money / old money distinction in the US seems to not have the teeth that it does in the UK, at least, from the mid 20th century onwards. The thing about old money having old cars and appliances applies to the UK too. If you're upper-class in the UK, you might wear Wellington boots and go hunting with your dogs in your Subaru hatchback. At a glance, it might look indistinguishable from something you might find someone doing in rural Montana. The Gilded Age in the US is absolutely fascinating... it seems like at that point in history, the US was trying its hardest to ape European conventions for class, and simultaneously, there was a ton of economic growth fueling the noveau riche. That's when we got people like Rockefeller and Vanderbilt. It's the time when Wharton's The Age of Innocence was set (highly recommend this book). Old money went to the opera at the Academy of Music Opera House, and new money went to the Metropolitan Opera House. (Guess which one is still around.)
  - TecoAndJix 5y ago
    “The Guilded Age” TV show on HBO covers this opera house debacle!
oh_sigh 5y ago
Didn't the British carry their classism even into war, until at least WWII? As in, officers would be drawn from the upper classes, and the enlisted men would be drawn from the lower classes?

brimble 5y ago

> Paradoxically, working in tech is seen as somewhat low-class. Fussell (though writing about the US) may have some insight here. For one thing, working is kinda low-class; for another, being concerned about the latest-and-greatest of technology is, separately, kinda low-class. He writes (I'm paraphrasing) that American old money is more likely to drive a 30-year-old truck, to have ancient kitchen appliances, maybe even fairly old entertainment-related electronics, than to have a flashy new sports car and top-end appliances—because caring about new technology is "low", so is something those sorts of people have been socialized not to care about (much of it's the "help's" problem, anyway, after all). The US has a similar thing going on, along the "working/professional/upper" axis: many programmers make "professional" levels of money (e.g. doctor, lawyer, upper management at mid-level corporations, that kind of thing) but as a society we seem to have decided it's not proper to treat them as professionals, so they remain working-class in many respects (along with actual engineers).

klodolph 5y ago
Yes, there's a lot of similar stuff going on in the US. However, the new money / old money distinction in the US seems to not have the teeth that it does in the UK, at least, from the mid 20th century onwards. The thing about old money having old cars and appliances applies to the UK too. If you're upper-class in the UK, you might wear Wellington boots and go hunting with your dogs in your Subaru hatchback. At a glance, it might look indistinguishable from something you might find someone doing in rural Montana. The Gilded Age in the US is absolutely fascinating... it seems like at that point in history, the US was trying its hardest to ape European conventions for class, and simultaneously, there was a ton of economic growth fueling the noveau riche. That's when we got people like Rockefeller and Vanderbilt. It's the time when Wharton's The Age of Innocence was set (highly recommend this book). Old money went to the opera at the Academy of Music Opera House, and new money went to the Metropolitan Opera House. (Guess which one is still around.)
- TecoAndJix 5y ago
  “The Guilded Age” TV show on HBO covers this opera house debacle!

oh_sigh 5y ago

Didn't the British carry their classism even into war, until at least WWII? As in, officers would be drawn from the upper classes, and the enlisted men would be drawn from the lower classes?