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Russian attacks on Ukraine infrastructure need to stop its putting the lives of citizens in danger. Ukraine citizens use the internet to communicate and evade

Russian attacks on Ukraine infrastructure need to stop its putting the lives of citizens in danger. Ukraine citizens use the internet to communicate and evade the Russian Military while Russian citizens using it to play league. Who's use is more legitimate seems pretty easy to answer if you ask me. The fear that the west will appear as hippocratic if they condemn Russia because of the Iraq invasion doesn't make sense to me. The Iraq invasion was completely unjustified, we lied about weapons of mass destruction the same way Russia lie about a holocaust. We don't gain nor lose any ground by acknowledging our past. Both invasions are unjustified and easy to condemn. If we can't condemn unjustified actions because in the future we might wan't to do the same then we are truly worthy of condemnation.

filoleg 5y ago
> Ukraine citizens use the internet to communicate and evade the Russian Military while Russian citizens using it to play league. I don't know about where you got this from, but my father (who currently lives in Russia) uses internet to communicate with me (I live in the US) and to consume news and information about the war outside of the Russian government propaganda. Thanks to internet still being generally available there, I didn't need to spend any time trying to drop all that info on him myself, as he already came into the call fully aware of all Zelenskyy speeches and other atrocities Russian government is committing during this invasion. And thanks to internet again, he gave me a perspective on the amount of brainwashing going on in Russian media regarding the situation right now, as well as first hand boots-on-the-ground info regarding protests in major Russian cities right now. I am extremely glad for that, as my other side of the family (the one I don't communicate with) has completely fallen for Putin's propaganda, but that's on them given that internet is still accessible. I wouldn't be able to stand to lose my father to this, and I believe that with no internet access there would have been much less choice in the matter. Want to cut off access to Russian governmental portals and cripple network capabilities of Russian government/military systems? I am all for it. Want to cut off access to some specific internet resources that might directly assist Russian military with the invasion (e.g., certain Google Maps features and such)? Also fully on board with this. But I am extremely against cutting off general internet access for russian population en masse, as that's their only window into the reality that isn't Putin's propaganda machine. For once, internet is also used by Russians to communicate with their friends/relatives in Ukraine (and in the west in general) who can give them a direct view into the atrocities happening there and slowly sway the general population. P.S. a silly nitpick, but you must be getting some really strange info, if you think that League was ever even nearly as popular in Russia as Dota/Counter-Strike.
- dangerface 5y ago
  The point is your da isn't being blown up. Clearly ukraine need their internet your dad doesn't need to talk to you he needs to go outside and talk to putin.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    > Clearly ukraine need their internet 100% agreed. > your dad doesn't need to talk to you he needs to go outside and talk to putin The simplicity and reductionist types of views that some people like you espouse here never fail to remind me how sheltered and unexposed to reality some people can be.
enaaem 5y ago
Saddam had a lot of enemies internally and externally. We are talking about shia groups and Kurds inside his country and prominent Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Remember that Saddam invaded a small country before. Ukraine and it’s president is well beloved by everyone except Russia and Belarus. Of course you can have the position that all invasions are equally bad, but that is not how things are in reality.
- femiagbabiaka 5y ago
  Zelensky’s popularity was tanking within the country before about a year ago when he started his nationalist turn in response to public sentiment, and the turn did not help that much. He had and still has many enemies within his country. In this case it is not so much that people love Ukraine, a country that most people not in Europe probably did not even know about until recently. The hatred in the West towards Russia is just that strong and only made stronger by their invasion. Similar to the hatred towards Iraq and Iran actually.
  - monetus 5y ago
    Anecdotally, I think trump's impeachment built a lot of good will towards zelensky. At least in the U.S.
    - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
      I'd agree with you except I don't think most people I know even realized he was involved in that saga aside from those who are journalists or on Twitter. But it would be interesting to see polling data on it!
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    > a country that most people not in Europe probably did not even know about until recently I assume that most people in Europe had studied geography at the school, had heard about the breadbasket of Europe, and know what is Chernobyl.

filoleg 5y ago

> Ukraine citizens use the internet to communicate and evade the Russian Military while Russian citizens using it to play league. I don't know about where you got this from, but my father (who currently lives in Russia) uses internet to communicate with me (I live in the US) and to consume news and information about the war outside of the Russian government propaganda. Thanks to internet still being generally available there, I didn't need to spend any time trying to drop all that info on him myself, as he already came into the call fully aware of all Zelenskyy speeches and other atrocities Russian government is committing during this invasion. And thanks to internet again, he gave me a perspective on the amount of brainwashing going on in Russian media regarding the situation right now, as well as first hand boots-on-the-ground info regarding protests in major Russian cities right now. I am extremely glad for that, as my other side of the family (the one I don't communicate with) has completely fallen for Putin's propaganda, but that's on them given that internet is still accessible. I wouldn't be able to stand to lose my father to this, and I believe that with no internet access there would have been much less choice in the matter. Want to cut off access to Russian governmental portals and cripple network capabilities of Russian government/military systems? I am all for it. Want to cut off access to some specific internet resources that might directly assist Russian military with the invasion (e.g., certain Google Maps features and such)? Also fully on board with this. But I am extremely against cutting off general internet access for russian population en masse, as that's their only window into the reality that isn't Putin's propaganda machine. For once, internet is also used by Russians to communicate with their friends/relatives in Ukraine (and in the west in general) who can give them a direct view into the atrocities happening there and slowly sway the general population. P.S. a silly nitpick, but you must be getting some really strange info, if you think that League was ever even nearly as popular in Russia as Dota/Counter-Strike.

dangerface 5y ago
The point is your da isn't being blown up. Clearly ukraine need their internet your dad doesn't need to talk to you he needs to go outside and talk to putin.
- filoleg 5y ago
  > Clearly ukraine need their internet 100% agreed. > your dad doesn't need to talk to you he needs to go outside and talk to putin The simplicity and reductionist types of views that some people like you espouse here never fail to remind me how sheltered and unexposed to reality some people can be.

enaaem 5y ago

Saddam had a lot of enemies internally and externally. We are talking about shia groups and Kurds inside his country and prominent Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Remember that Saddam invaded a small country before. Ukraine and it’s president is well beloved by everyone except Russia and Belarus. Of course you can have the position that all invasions are equally bad, but that is not how things are in reality.

femiagbabiaka 5y ago
Zelensky’s popularity was tanking within the country before about a year ago when he started his nationalist turn in response to public sentiment, and the turn did not help that much. He had and still has many enemies within his country. In this case it is not so much that people love Ukraine, a country that most people not in Europe probably did not even know about until recently. The hatred in the West towards Russia is just that strong and only made stronger by their invasion. Similar to the hatred towards Iraq and Iran actually.
- monetus 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I think trump's impeachment built a lot of good will towards zelensky. At least in the U.S.
  - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
    I'd agree with you except I don't think most people I know even realized he was involved in that saga aside from those who are journalists or on Twitter. But it would be interesting to see polling data on it!
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > a country that most people not in Europe probably did not even know about until recently I assume that most people in Europe had studied geography at the school, had heard about the breadbasket of Europe, and know what is Chernobyl.