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"I'm just gonna artificially raise price of this limited resource even though there already exists hardware specifically made for me, but after the next generat

"I'm just gonna artificially raise price of this limited resource even though there already exists hardware specifically made for me, but after the next generation comes out I can re-sell this one to some sucker" If you don't see anything wrong with that then that's about it. I really hope US or China or someone is going to regulate cryptocurrencies to shit so cryto-bros can stop destroying the planet and normal people can again afford GPUs.

codedokode 5y ago
So basically you are surprised that people want to buy a higher value and better product instead of lower value? Also, for "normal people" there are plenty of 1 and 2Gb videocards at reasonable prices, unusable for mining.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Not surprised (why would that surprise me?) just that this throttling is justifiable and I would go even further
keymon-o 5y ago
I am probably not that informed on who does what artificially and intentionally, but I still don’t see a point in justifying gaming usage over crypto usage. As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. Apart from the ability to check the GPU health, GPU providers could easily implement some hardware “calculation counter” or design specific solution so resell value could be more easily evaluated.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  >gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. We are trying, but crypto-bros are buying our cards. C'mon pay a bit more attention.
  - keymon-o 5y ago
    Trust me, I'd take your problem seriously if only those cards would speed up growing up for you, guys.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      I hope you dont have hobbies, since apparently hobbies are now childish. Maybe you should grow up a bit :)
  - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
    If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. The availability there is also bunk and has nothing to do with mining - claiming something which uses energy is automatically 'bad' is silly and relies on common ignorance and frustration. Cars use energy, lights use energy, video games use energy - crypto is new and you don't understand it past that fact that it uses energy so you can't tolerate it. If you don't want to get rid of everything which uses considerable energy then you need to determine the value of each thing individually, and if you say crypto is worthless, you should have a non-circular reason for that claim. Clearly the market disagrees with you.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      >If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. and play PC games how? for some reason I thought people around here were smart
- paulmd 5y ago
  > As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. gamers frequently are, you just described a console.
  - keymon-o 5y ago
    Yes, I did. Intentionally. If you forbid consumer GPUs for both sides, limit or cripple the gaming tech development in a sense it offers lower variety of products, you are going to see a lower demand for gaming in general. Thus, “saving the planet”. It’s not something I propose, but giving hypothetical example of what would really be fair for both sides
Zpalmtree 5y ago
You aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because you don't like what other people are doing with them
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Seeing as Nvidia agrees with me, I think you are wrong. In any case the sales have started to drop so if Nvidia doesn't do anything after crypto fad ends they'll be out of business since people aren't buying their GPUs anymore.
  - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
    So you believe that Nvidia needs crypto to survive but knowingly and intentionally hampers their cards' mining performance? You seem confused.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      Not what I said at all. Re-read.
      - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
        wrong comment
- paulmd 5y ago
  Conversely miners aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because they built a business around consumer hardware. Companies seeking to maximize their revenue is very much the nature of the free market. It's their business, you don't get to tell them how to run it. You're a customer in a market, if you don't find the product acceptable then you can go elsewhere. There are competitors offering products as well, and as a whole this determines a market rate. If your business is no longer profitable (or profitable enough) paying the market rate, then you go out of business. That is also how the market works. Many, many businesses would be far more profitable if they could force their suppliers to cut their revenue streams. Miners have responded to the shift in the power dynamic by throwing a tantrum and attacking and blackmailing their suppliers. Bioshock nailed it: laissez-faire is great when you're the one on top, but as soon as someone else out-competes you, or exerts their own market leverage, it's an unfair and ridiculous imposition on your own right to profit, and it's time to shout and flip the game board. This is exactly what you see with the whole "gamers aren't entitled to cheap cards" thing you said, that was great when miners had more market power than gamers, but everyone leaves off the whole "and miners aren't entitled to cheap cards either", which is equally true. Suppliers are taking note of that market power and moving to take a cut of the revenue for themselves. Customers are free to re-shuffle to new suppliers if they no longer find the terms acceptable. And that's how the free market works. As always - businesses that are not agile enough to adapt, will "exit the market", and create room for newer, healthier businesses. And remember, this has been status quo for a long time. If your business depended on CAD, it probably sucked when ATI and NVIDIA started releasing workstation products and artificially limiting CAD performance on gaming cards. The world moved on though.

codedokode 5y ago

So basically you are surprised that people want to buy a higher value and better product instead of lower value? Also, for "normal people" there are plenty of 1 and 2Gb videocards at reasonable prices, unusable for mining.

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
Not surprised (why would that surprise me?) just that this throttling is justifiable and I would go even further

keymon-o 5y ago

I am probably not that informed on who does what artificially and intentionally, but I still don’t see a point in justifying gaming usage over crypto usage. As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. Apart from the ability to check the GPU health, GPU providers could easily implement some hardware “calculation counter” or design specific solution so resell value could be more easily evaluated.

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
>gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. We are trying, but crypto-bros are buying our cards. C'mon pay a bit more attention.
- keymon-o 5y ago
  Trust me, I'd take your problem seriously if only those cards would speed up growing up for you, guys.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    I hope you dont have hobbies, since apparently hobbies are now childish. Maybe you should grow up a bit :)
- mattwilsonn888 5y ago
  If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. The availability there is also bunk and has nothing to do with mining - claiming something which uses energy is automatically 'bad' is silly and relies on common ignorance and frustration. Cars use energy, lights use energy, video games use energy - crypto is new and you don't understand it past that fact that it uses energy so you can't tolerate it. If you don't want to get rid of everything which uses considerable energy then you need to determine the value of each thing individually, and if you say crypto is worthless, you should have a non-circular reason for that claim. Clearly the market disagrees with you.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    >If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. and play PC games how? for some reason I thought people around here were smart
paulmd 5y ago
> As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. gamers frequently are, you just described a console.
- keymon-o 5y ago
  Yes, I did. Intentionally. If you forbid consumer GPUs for both sides, limit or cripple the gaming tech development in a sense it offers lower variety of products, you are going to see a lower demand for gaming in general. Thus, “saving the planet”. It’s not something I propose, but giving hypothetical example of what would really be fair for both sides

Zpalmtree 5y ago

You aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because you don't like what other people are doing with them

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
Seeing as Nvidia agrees with me, I think you are wrong. In any case the sales have started to drop so if Nvidia doesn't do anything after crypto fad ends they'll be out of business since people aren't buying their GPUs anymore.
- mattwilsonn888 5y ago
  So you believe that Nvidia needs crypto to survive but knowingly and intentionally hampers their cards' mining performance? You seem confused.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    Not what I said at all. Re-read.
    - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
      wrong comment
paulmd 5y ago
Conversely miners aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because they built a business around consumer hardware. Companies seeking to maximize their revenue is very much the nature of the free market. It's their business, you don't get to tell them how to run it. You're a customer in a market, if you don't find the product acceptable then you can go elsewhere. There are competitors offering products as well, and as a whole this determines a market rate. If your business is no longer profitable (or profitable enough) paying the market rate, then you go out of business. That is also how the market works. Many, many businesses would be far more profitable if they could force their suppliers to cut their revenue streams. Miners have responded to the shift in the power dynamic by throwing a tantrum and attacking and blackmailing their suppliers. Bioshock nailed it: laissez-faire is great when you're the one on top, but as soon as someone else out-competes you, or exerts their own market leverage, it's an unfair and ridiculous imposition on your own right to profit, and it's time to shout and flip the game board. This is exactly what you see with the whole "gamers aren't entitled to cheap cards" thing you said, that was great when miners had more market power than gamers, but everyone leaves off the whole "and miners aren't entitled to cheap cards either", which is equally true. Suppliers are taking note of that market power and moving to take a cut of the revenue for themselves. Customers are free to re-shuffle to new suppliers if they no longer find the terms acceptable. And that's how the free market works. As always - businesses that are not agile enough to adapt, will "exit the market", and create room for newer, healthier businesses. And remember, this has been status quo for a long time. If your business depended on CAD, it probably sucked when ATI and NVIDIA started releasing workstation products and artificially limiting CAD performance on gaming cards. The world moved on though.