3 ms·

I've learned some Czech about 10 years ago. Not much left, since i didn't need it that much (yes, shame on me), but i actually understand several words. Nice. N

I've learned some Czech about 10 years ago. Not much left, since i didn't need it that much (yes, shame on me), but i actually understand several words. Nice. Now i wonder if something like this exists for germanic languages.

vidarh 5y ago
> Now i wonder if something like this exists for germanic languages. Dutch. Only half joking. Dutch would at least make a great starting point in terms of written language. As a native speaker with English as a second language and German as my third, I can read a whole lot of Dutch because it's closer in spelling to Scandinavian languages than German is, but has kept many words that are still used in German but archaic or different in Scandinavian languages. It's not unusual for me to find it easier to read Dutch than to read the same text in German despite having actually had German at school but never having had any formal Dutch (and I have no hope of understanding spoken Dutch). Consider a few examples: skip (Norwegian), skib (Danish), ship (English), schip (Dutch), Schiff (German). Or dag (Norwegian, Danish, Dutch), day (English), Tag (German). Dans (Norwegian, Danish, Dutch), dance (English), Tanz (German). Where there's broad concordance between the Germanic languages, Dutch is usually close to the majority of the languages, but it often retains some spellings that are readily recognisable to the others when it's closer to German, and in the cases where it's closer to English those words are usually recognisable to other Germanic speakers anyway.
- BurningPenguin 5y ago
  This actually makes sense. One of the sales agents in the company i work for is Dutch. He can speak German, but he mixes several words in that sound kinda English or are maybe Dutch. I'm still able to understand him good enough, so i can usually help him (i'm in IT). Maybe i'll look into it some day. Would make a fun exercise.
- ochrist 5y ago
  I would have said English, but you are probably right - as long as we are talking about written language. As a Scandinavian I understand the other Scandinavian languages as well as English, German, French and a few other languages. But Dutch is hard to understand due to a lot of guttural sounds.
  - vidarh 5y ago
    In terms of shared second language English would probably just remove the need for trying to find a middle ground. But as a middle ground understandable without knowing a second language, it loses out because so much of its vocabulary comes from French. E.g. chair vs. stol, stoel, Shtul, a word that even has close cognates in Slavic languages (but the Germanic is hanging on in English in "stool"). An English with French influence replaced with pre-existing Germanic-sourced English words with Dutch as fallback might be a fun experiment. Regarding spoken Dutch, I agree, it's painful to listen to. And I just got a horrible thought: A mix of Danish and Dutch pronunciation... I imagine it'd sound somewhat like death metal ;-)
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      A Germanicized English would probably work well enough given that English has such a pidgin-like grammar anyway. You wouldn't have to deal with the whole part of simplifying the language, there's already a widely used standard for that.
      - ochrist 5y ago
        Something like this? http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html
        vidarh 5y ago
        That only changes the orthography, which while annoying is a lot less of an issue for mutual intelligibility than the vocabulary of English...
    - bmn__ 5y ago
      > An English with French influence replaced with pre-existing Germanic-sourced English words https://anglish.fandom.com/wiki/What_is_Anglish%3F https://anglish.fandom.com/wiki/What_is_Anglish%3F
      - 5y ago
- personlurking 5y ago
  iirc, Dutch got rid of the case system in the 40s, thus making it easier than German. You're right about Scandinavian langauges. I took a few Duolingo courses in Swedish and Norwegian and my several months of Dutch helped me.

vidarh 5y ago

> Now i wonder if something like this exists for germanic languages. Dutch. Only half joking. Dutch would at least make a great starting point in terms of written language. As a native speaker with English as a second language and German as my third, I can read a whole lot of Dutch because it's closer in spelling to Scandinavian languages than German is, but has kept many words that are still used in German but archaic or different in Scandinavian languages. It's not unusual for me to find it easier to read Dutch than to read the same text in German despite having actually had German at school but never having had any formal Dutch (and I have no hope of understanding spoken Dutch). Consider a few examples: skip (Norwegian), skib (Danish), ship (English), schip (Dutch), Schiff (German). Or dag (Norwegian, Danish, Dutch), day (English), Tag (German). Dans (Norwegian, Danish, Dutch), dance (English), Tanz (German). Where there's broad concordance between the Germanic languages, Dutch is usually close to the majority of the languages, but it often retains some spellings that are readily recognisable to the others when it's closer to German, and in the cases where it's closer to English those words are usually recognisable to other Germanic speakers anyway.

BurningPenguin 5y ago
This actually makes sense. One of the sales agents in the company i work for is Dutch. He can speak German, but he mixes several words in that sound kinda English or are maybe Dutch. I'm still able to understand him good enough, so i can usually help him (i'm in IT). Maybe i'll look into it some day. Would make a fun exercise.
ochrist 5y ago
I would have said English, but you are probably right - as long as we are talking about written language. As a Scandinavian I understand the other Scandinavian languages as well as English, German, French and a few other languages. But Dutch is hard to understand due to a lot of guttural sounds.
- vidarh 5y ago
  In terms of shared second language English would probably just remove the need for trying to find a middle ground. But as a middle ground understandable without knowing a second language, it loses out because so much of its vocabulary comes from French. E.g. chair vs. stol, stoel, Shtul, a word that even has close cognates in Slavic languages (but the Germanic is hanging on in English in "stool"). An English with French influence replaced with pre-existing Germanic-sourced English words with Dutch as fallback might be a fun experiment. Regarding spoken Dutch, I agree, it's painful to listen to. And I just got a horrible thought: A mix of Danish and Dutch pronunciation... I imagine it'd sound somewhat like death metal ;-)
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    A Germanicized English would probably work well enough given that English has such a pidgin-like grammar anyway. You wouldn't have to deal with the whole part of simplifying the language, there's already a widely used standard for that.
    - ochrist 5y ago
      Something like this? http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html
      - vidarh 5y ago
        That only changes the orthography, which while annoying is a lot less of an issue for mutual intelligibility than the vocabulary of English...
  - bmn__ 5y ago
    > An English with French influence replaced with pre-existing Germanic-sourced English words https://anglish.fandom.com/wiki/What_is_Anglish%3F https://anglish.fandom.com/wiki/What_is_Anglish%3F
    - 5y ago
personlurking 5y ago
iirc, Dutch got rid of the case system in the 40s, thus making it easier than German. You're right about Scandinavian langauges. I took a few Duolingo courses in Swedish and Norwegian and my several months of Dutch helped me.