6 ms·

Nvida should be able to meet market demand. You just don't like crypto maybe. If Tesla was out of Models 3s you would blame...? Or correctly assess that Tesla s

Nvida should be able to meet market demand. You just don't like crypto maybe. If Tesla was out of Models 3s you would blame...? Or correctly assess that Tesla should ramp up production.

TheCowboy 5y ago
You realize it's not simple to just build the chip production facilities to facilitate this? It requires major capital investment and planning. Looks like you also missed that the chip shortage is affecting automobiles. Many articles exist that can explain better than I can about why this isn't a quickly resolved issue.
- leereeves 5y ago
  It's not a supply issue. By design, proof of work requires even more resources as more resources are spent on it. One might say that it expands to consume all available supply. Because of that, no matter how many cards Nvidia makes, crypto miners will want them all, as long as there is money to be made in crypto.
  - Siira 5y ago
  - vl 5y ago
    Not true at all. If enough hardware is available, pool only expands until reward covers electricity cost plus small margin. I.e. bitcoin mining electricity-cost bound for the long time now.
    - eru 5y ago
      Electricity costs plus cost of capital (etc).
      - paulmd 5y ago
        in practice that's not even true because some miners are willing to run negative margins because they extract value elsewhere in the process (the most prominent example is stolen electricity, but also for many miners it's a form of cash laundering. You always get less money out than you put in, but it's clean cash. In China's case they can't get money past capital controls, but you can mine at a loss and sell the bitcoins in a jurisdiction of your choice, that's worth something to them. Also, many miners are front-running exchange trades or extracting other forms of economic value.)
        eru 5y ago
        Interesting. How does running a mining operation help you front-run exchange trades?
        paulmd 5y ago
        standard front-running stuff. you can see the transactions that are in the mempool, you can either submit your own higher-fee transaction (likely to be included before theirs) or if you're a miner you can try to mine blocks with your transaction included and theirs specifically excluded so that yours goes first. that essentially tells you that the price is about to go up or down, so you can make money on the movement. https://cointelegraph.com/news/front-running-flash-bots-and-keeping-things-fair-in-the-crypto-market https://cointelegraph.com/news/front-running-flash-bots-and-... https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/miner-extractable-value-mev https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/miner-extracta...
        eru 5y ago
        Thanks. Most of what you suggest doesn't benefit from having significant mining capacity yourself. (Though one thing does.)
HideousKojima 5y ago
Nvidia doesn't make their own silicon, they go through TSMC's foundries, which means they're competing for a finite amount of production slots.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  I thought their gaming line of 3000 chips is being produced at Samsung
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Doesn't really matter. 3000 chips are on the cutting edge node and thus competiting with everything else that also wants to make chips on it. It really is multi-modal market. And demand for that node, is different from automotive woes...
csande17 5y ago
If con artists convinced speculative investors to spend millions of dollars on Tesla Model 3s, light them on fire, and dump them into the ocean, I would not blame Tesla for the reduced availability of Model 3s.
- eru 5y ago
  Tesla still got paid.
  - paulmd 5y ago
    that's irrelevant to the point about demand
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      But thats not what he or she was responding to.
ehnto 5y ago
There are limits to manufacturing capacity, especially such advanced manufacturing. I feel like if Nvidia could, they would have scaled up. Why wouldn't they want to meet demand?
- cbozeman 5y ago
  Uh, because you can inflate MSRP into the stratosphere and blame it on crypto miners? Cryptocurrencies give NVIDIA the perfect bullshit excuse that people won't ponder too hard over, because the story of modern media is simplistic... every story must have a "good guy" and a "bad guy". It has to be dumbed down for all the idiotic plebs like us.
  - Mindwipe 5y ago
    > Uh, because you can inflate MSRP into the stratosphere and blame it on crypto miners? Cards are still selling for significantly more than MSRP, so if this was the plan they're doing a terrible job of it.

Nvida should be able to meet market demand. You just don't like crypto maybe. If Tesla was out of Models 3s you would blame...? Or correctly assess that Tesla should ramp up production.

TheCowboy 5y ago

You realize it's not simple to just build the chip production facilities to facilitate this? It requires major capital investment and planning. Looks like you also missed that the chip shortage is affecting automobiles. Many articles exist that can explain better than I can about why this isn't a quickly resolved issue.

leereeves 5y ago
It's not a supply issue. By design, proof of work requires even more resources as more resources are spent on it. One might say that it expands to consume all available supply. Because of that, no matter how many cards Nvidia makes, crypto miners will want them all, as long as there is money to be made in crypto.
- Siira 5y ago
- vl 5y ago
  Not true at all. If enough hardware is available, pool only expands until reward covers electricity cost plus small margin. I.e. bitcoin mining electricity-cost bound for the long time now.
  - eru 5y ago
    Electricity costs plus cost of capital (etc).
    - paulmd 5y ago
      in practice that's not even true because some miners are willing to run negative margins because they extract value elsewhere in the process (the most prominent example is stolen electricity, but also for many miners it's a form of cash laundering. You always get less money out than you put in, but it's clean cash. In China's case they can't get money past capital controls, but you can mine at a loss and sell the bitcoins in a jurisdiction of your choice, that's worth something to them. Also, many miners are front-running exchange trades or extracting other forms of economic value.)
      - eru 5y ago
        Interesting. How does running a mining operation help you front-run exchange trades?
        paulmd 5y ago
        standard front-running stuff. you can see the transactions that are in the mempool, you can either submit your own higher-fee transaction (likely to be included before theirs) or if you're a miner you can try to mine blocks with your transaction included and theirs specifically excluded so that yours goes first. that essentially tells you that the price is about to go up or down, so you can make money on the movement. https://cointelegraph.com/news/front-running-flash-bots-and-keeping-things-fair-in-the-crypto-market https://cointelegraph.com/news/front-running-flash-bots-and-... https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/miner-extractable-value-mev https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/miner-extracta...
        eru 5y ago
        Thanks. Most of what you suggest doesn't benefit from having significant mining capacity yourself. (Though one thing does.)

HideousKojima 5y ago

Nvidia doesn't make their own silicon, they go through TSMC's foundries, which means they're competing for a finite amount of production slots.

beebeepka 5y ago
I thought their gaming line of 3000 chips is being produced at Samsung
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Doesn't really matter. 3000 chips are on the cutting edge node and thus competiting with everything else that also wants to make chips on it. It really is multi-modal market. And demand for that node, is different from automotive woes...

csande17 5y ago

If con artists convinced speculative investors to spend millions of dollars on Tesla Model 3s, light them on fire, and dump them into the ocean, I would not blame Tesla for the reduced availability of Model 3s.

eru 5y ago
Tesla still got paid.
- paulmd 5y ago
  that's irrelevant to the point about demand
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    But thats not what he or she was responding to.

ehnto 5y ago

There are limits to manufacturing capacity, especially such advanced manufacturing. I feel like if Nvidia could, they would have scaled up. Why wouldn't they want to meet demand?

cbozeman 5y ago
Uh, because you can inflate MSRP into the stratosphere and blame it on crypto miners? Cryptocurrencies give NVIDIA the perfect bullshit excuse that people won't ponder too hard over, because the story of modern media is simplistic... every story must have a "good guy" and a "bad guy". It has to be dumbed down for all the idiotic plebs like us.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  > Uh, because you can inflate MSRP into the stratosphere and blame it on crypto miners? Cards are still selling for significantly more than MSRP, so if this was the plan they're doing a terrible job of it.