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Anything can go wrong AFTER takeover. Russians can convert power plant into nuclear landmine and blow up it on retreat. This is war between two nuclear states,

Anything can go wrong AFTER takeover. Russians can convert power plant into nuclear landmine and blow up it on retreat. This is war between two nuclear states, so nuclear weapon will be used eventually.

lb1lf 5y ago
-Unless the Russian forces have way better connections than we give them credit for, they can not control which way the wind blows. At the moment, the winds come from the southeast, so a lot of the fallout would end up in Russia.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  As far as I can tell, this power station is in the south-east. A wind from the south-east would dump fallout in central Ukraine, not Russia.
  - lb1lf 5y ago
    -Most definitely, but there'd be plenty to spare for Russia, too. Blown up nuclear power plants are equal opportunity weapons.
    - Muromec 5y ago
      Judging from the way this war develops, it’s nit like they care about Russia that much
Scea91 5y ago
> This is war between two nuclear states, so nuclear weapon will be used eventually. Ukraine is not a nuclear state as it does not have nuclear weapons.
- twaw 5y ago
  - Scea91 5y ago
    > It looks like nobody holding their promises right now, i.e. USA, Brittain, RF, France are traitors, thus Ukraine has full right to not obey this agreement either. No, the only traitor is Russia. Look at the actual contents of Budapest memorandum [1]. This is in summary what the parties committed to: 1) Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. 2) Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 3) Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics. 4) Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". 5) Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 6) Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. I do not see any of these items being violated by western powers. > RF started to prepare their citizens for such scenario already. Obviously not for propaganda purposes... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...
    - ant6n 5y ago
      There actually seems to have been a promise made, back in 1991, that NATO wouldn't expand eastward beyond Germany. Somebody did some research deep and found an assurance like that in protocols, Spiegel reports https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-is-vladimir-putin-right-a-bf318d2c-7aeb-4b59-8d5f-1d8c94e1964d https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-e... Or if you want just the quote out of the protocol by the researcher, see here: https://twitter.com/shifrinson/status/1160540400760832000/photo/1 https://twitter.com/shifrinson/status/1160540400760832000/ph... Not sure how binding such an assurance is or should be.
  - petre 5y ago
    > It looks like nobody holding their promises right now, i.e. USA, Brittain, RF, France are traitors, thus Ukraine has full right to not obey this agreement either. Nobody wants to start WW3 over Ukraine, except maybe Putin who has been left with very few options and doesn't care much about the lives of others, including his fellow Russians. The way he sees it is that he's liberating Ukraine from "nazis" and that the US has orchestrated a coup in 2014 replacing his puppet Yanukovych with their own. He has also signalled that he's ready to use the nuclear arsnal to deter anyone who interferes. What the West can do without potentially triggering WW3 is to economically cripple Russia, supply Ukraine with small arms, personnel carried anti tank and anti airplane weapons, ammo and possibly mercenaries. Any direct engagement between NATO and Russia could potentially trigger WW3 and nuclear warfare. What you are doing is making unsubstantiated claims that Ukraine might be developing nuclear weapons. The very same false claims were in fact voiced by the Kremlin.
- Muromec 5y ago
  We promised to not have it in return for not being invaded, so technically we are a nuclear state without any weapons present at this moment (as far as publicly known). Since we have both technological expertise and practical means (from uranium ores to delivery systems), it’s a matter of time.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    No nukes means not a nuclear state. The former nukes belonged to the USSR and only they had the codes to arm them.
    - usrusr 5y ago
      So tell us, which of the letters in USSR is for "Russia"?
      - type0 5y ago
        RSFSR - Russia is officially recognized as continuation state of USSR by the UN
        oddmiral 5y ago
        Can you point to an official document, such as voting by UN members, to put RF into security council of UN? I cannot find any. RF is not a founder of UN, so it puzzling for me, how they are able to sit permanently in Security Council. Is there an exception for RF in UN statute written somewhere?
        type0 5y ago
        > Can you point to official documents, such as voting by UN members to put RF into security council of UN? No idea, I haven't seen any. Another thing Russia inherited from USSR war nukes as well as debt.
        5y ago
harles 5y ago
I wouldn’t count having nuclear power plants as being a nuclear state. There’s a world of difference between power plants and weapons. A war between two countries with nuclear weapons would be on a whole other level.
- twaw 5y ago

lb1lf 5y ago

-Unless the Russian forces have way better connections than we give them credit for, they can not control which way the wind blows. At the moment, the winds come from the southeast, so a lot of the fallout would end up in Russia.

denton-scratch 5y ago
As far as I can tell, this power station is in the south-east. A wind from the south-east would dump fallout in central Ukraine, not Russia.
- lb1lf 5y ago
  -Most definitely, but there'd be plenty to spare for Russia, too. Blown up nuclear power plants are equal opportunity weapons.
  - Muromec 5y ago
    Judging from the way this war develops, it’s nit like they care about Russia that much

Scea91 5y ago

> This is war between two nuclear states, so nuclear weapon will be used eventually. Ukraine is not a nuclear state as it does not have nuclear weapons.

twaw 5y ago
- Scea91 5y ago
  > It looks like nobody holding their promises right now, i.e. USA, Brittain, RF, France are traitors, thus Ukraine has full right to not obey this agreement either. No, the only traitor is Russia. Look at the actual contents of Budapest memorandum [1]. This is in summary what the parties committed to: 1) Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. 2) Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 3) Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics. 4) Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". 5) Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 6) Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. I do not see any of these items being violated by western powers. > RF started to prepare their citizens for such scenario already. Obviously not for propaganda purposes... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...
  - ant6n 5y ago
    There actually seems to have been a promise made, back in 1991, that NATO wouldn't expand eastward beyond Germany. Somebody did some research deep and found an assurance like that in protocols, Spiegel reports https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-is-vladimir-putin-right-a-bf318d2c-7aeb-4b59-8d5f-1d8c94e1964d https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-e... Or if you want just the quote out of the protocol by the researcher, see here: https://twitter.com/shifrinson/status/1160540400760832000/photo/1 https://twitter.com/shifrinson/status/1160540400760832000/ph... Not sure how binding such an assurance is or should be.
- petre 5y ago
  > It looks like nobody holding their promises right now, i.e. USA, Brittain, RF, France are traitors, thus Ukraine has full right to not obey this agreement either. Nobody wants to start WW3 over Ukraine, except maybe Putin who has been left with very few options and doesn't care much about the lives of others, including his fellow Russians. The way he sees it is that he's liberating Ukraine from "nazis" and that the US has orchestrated a coup in 2014 replacing his puppet Yanukovych with their own. He has also signalled that he's ready to use the nuclear arsnal to deter anyone who interferes. What the West can do without potentially triggering WW3 is to economically cripple Russia, supply Ukraine with small arms, personnel carried anti tank and anti airplane weapons, ammo and possibly mercenaries. Any direct engagement between NATO and Russia could potentially trigger WW3 and nuclear warfare. What you are doing is making unsubstantiated claims that Ukraine might be developing nuclear weapons. The very same false claims were in fact voiced by the Kremlin.
Muromec 5y ago
We promised to not have it in return for not being invaded, so technically we are a nuclear state without any weapons present at this moment (as far as publicly known). Since we have both technological expertise and practical means (from uranium ores to delivery systems), it’s a matter of time.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  No nukes means not a nuclear state. The former nukes belonged to the USSR and only they had the codes to arm them.
  - usrusr 5y ago
    So tell us, which of the letters in USSR is for "Russia"?
    - type0 5y ago
      RSFSR - Russia is officially recognized as continuation state of USSR by the UN
      - oddmiral 5y ago
        Can you point to an official document, such as voting by UN members, to put RF into security council of UN? I cannot find any. RF is not a founder of UN, so it puzzling for me, how they are able to sit permanently in Security Council. Is there an exception for RF in UN statute written somewhere?
        type0 5y ago
        > Can you point to official documents, such as voting by UN members to put RF into security council of UN? No idea, I haven't seen any. Another thing Russia inherited from USSR war nukes as well as debt.
        5y ago

harles 5y ago

I wouldn’t count having nuclear power plants as being a nuclear state. There’s a world of difference between power plants and weapons. A war between two countries with nuclear weapons would be on a whole other level.

twaw 5y ago