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If we can make energy storage simple and cheap enough If you're thinking of big Tesla Powerwall-style batteries, that just kicks the problem ahead by a few yea

If we can make energy storage simple and cheap enough If you're thinking of big Tesla Powerwall-style batteries, that just kicks the problem ahead by a few years or decades. The materials needed to make those batteries are finite. They will become "the new oil" in N years. Energy storage is going to be a big part of any sane energy future, but it's going to have to make heavy usage of non-battery means: giant flywheels? Pumping water? I don't know.

theshrike79 5y ago
You're right that the current state of battery tech is woefully inefficient for any kind of grid-level storage. But energy can be stored by pumping heated water to deep wells in the bedrock for example or you can use excess power to generate hydrogen and feed it back to the grid via fuel cells when needed. All of this is doable, but also slow to build and currently expensive.
ciphol 5y ago
The materials in those batteries can be recycled into new batteries indefinitely.
- mdoms 5y ago
  And when we need to create additional batteries...?
jliptzin 5y ago
What element in a battery is destroyed during its lifetime that cannot be recycled?
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  What percentage of batteries are actually recycled? How much energy does recycling them take? What toxic byproducts are produced as part of the recycling process? What will future demand for batteries be, and how long will our supplies of lithium etc. last? Who controls the lithium supplies? This is not an argument against recycling batteries, by the way. Chemical batteries are a big part of the future, and we should recycle them. But let's not be glib about any of these choices.
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    Is it possible the raw materials to make these batteries are so abundant right now that it’s much cheaper to just make new ones than recycle old ones?
spopejoy 5y ago
> They will become "the new oil" in N years. The existential problem with oil is climate change, not finite resources.

theshrike79 5y ago

You're right that the current state of battery tech is woefully inefficient for any kind of grid-level storage. But energy can be stored by pumping heated water to deep wells in the bedrock for example or you can use excess power to generate hydrogen and feed it back to the grid via fuel cells when needed. All of this is doable, but also slow to build and currently expensive.

ciphol 5y ago

The materials in those batteries can be recycled into new batteries indefinitely.

mdoms 5y ago
And when we need to create additional batteries...?

jliptzin 5y ago

What element in a battery is destroyed during its lifetime that cannot be recycled?

JohnBooty 5y ago
What percentage of batteries are actually recycled? How much energy does recycling them take? What toxic byproducts are produced as part of the recycling process? What will future demand for batteries be, and how long will our supplies of lithium etc. last? Who controls the lithium supplies? This is not an argument against recycling batteries, by the way. Chemical batteries are a big part of the future, and we should recycle them. But let's not be glib about any of these choices.
- jliptzin 5y ago
  Is it possible the raw materials to make these batteries are so abundant right now that it’s much cheaper to just make new ones than recycle old ones?

spopejoy 5y ago

> They will become "the new oil" in N years. The existential problem with oil is climate change, not finite resources.