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I thought it was much more than 50%, had been lead to believe the majority of the Russian people supported this war. As the Russian economy tanks, mothers find

I thought it was much more than 50%, had been lead to believe the majority of the Russian people supported this war. As the Russian economy tanks, mothers find out their sons died for a pointless war where civilians are getting killed, and the notion that Russia is being internationally shunned starts to sink in, this number should drop. Hopefully that makes a difference. I do think it's smart to do everything we can to sanction Russia's rich. Those people have power. They're the ones backing Putin. If they start to feel the pinch, feel that the party is getting ruined because of Putin's mood and his thirst for power, they might do something about it.

int_19h 5y ago
I think a lot of Westerners are forgetting what "no free press" means. Your average Russian citizen - who does not have foreign bank accounts etc - may not even find out the details about the sanctions. Their quality of life will suffer, but their TV will feed it into resentment of the West.
- brabel 5y ago
  In other comments, people are talking about how it's impossible for Russia to control all communication in Ukraine because there's always a way for the "resistance" to exchange information in a way the enemy cannot stop... yet, we also see comments like yours that assume Russians have no way to get information from non-state-sponsored actors, despite them being still mostly connected to the Internet (despite Ukrainian requests to remove them) and a simple VPN would give you full access to any website you may want to visit (and that a lot of international sources are still available in Russia - they just now cut off the BBC, for example, but it had been available the whole time before that).
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Both are true. It's very hard to control information exchange to such a degree that determined persons cannot find a way to exchange information. But your average citizen doesn't have any reason to be determined - they consume information from mainstream media, and so long as it isn't obviously off, they aren't going to double-check every bit of it. Thus, over time, you can gradually create a bubble, lie by lie. I remember the early 00s - freedom of press wasn't gone overnight, they went after the more popular stuff first, and then gradually it became more and more marginalized, with the last vestiges being swiped away only now. But with every independent TV channel or newspaper erased, more and more people ended up in the bubble.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I do think it's smart to do everything we can to sanction Russia's rich. Those people have power. They're the ones backing Putin. How? The oligarchs had a head's up regarding the start of the war and no doubt took measures to secure their wealth abroad and even get dual citizenship so the west can't touch them.
- brabel 5y ago
  There was a TV show where one of such oligarchs came to tears for losing two mansions in Italy, apparently :D so I don't think they are very happy or had time to "fix" the issues, at least not all of them.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >There was a TV show where one of such oligarchs came to tears for losing two mansions in Italy, apparently Well yes, sure, if we're talking about some dumb corrupt politician who blew his illicit gains frivolously on luxuries, out in the open, the second he landed on piles of cash, then yes, same how we have lottery winners who lose everything in a year and crypto speculators who also were left holding the bag, etc. My point is that stupid and financially irresponsible people are easily parted with their money, especially if it's from illicit gains and have no knowledge how to launder it or invest it, but I can assure you that the smart money took enough timely precautions to keep their dirty wealth intact.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      As an example, the west doesn't even really know where most of Putin's assets are, or what they are.

int_19h 5y ago

I think a lot of Westerners are forgetting what "no free press" means. Your average Russian citizen - who does not have foreign bank accounts etc - may not even find out the details about the sanctions. Their quality of life will suffer, but their TV will feed it into resentment of the West.

brabel 5y ago
In other comments, people are talking about how it's impossible for Russia to control all communication in Ukraine because there's always a way for the "resistance" to exchange information in a way the enemy cannot stop... yet, we also see comments like yours that assume Russians have no way to get information from non-state-sponsored actors, despite them being still mostly connected to the Internet (despite Ukrainian requests to remove them) and a simple VPN would give you full access to any website you may want to visit (and that a lot of international sources are still available in Russia - they just now cut off the BBC, for example, but it had been available the whole time before that).
- int_19h 5y ago
  Both are true. It's very hard to control information exchange to such a degree that determined persons cannot find a way to exchange information. But your average citizen doesn't have any reason to be determined - they consume information from mainstream media, and so long as it isn't obviously off, they aren't going to double-check every bit of it. Thus, over time, you can gradually create a bubble, lie by lie. I remember the early 00s - freedom of press wasn't gone overnight, they went after the more popular stuff first, and then gradually it became more and more marginalized, with the last vestiges being swiped away only now. But with every independent TV channel or newspaper erased, more and more people ended up in the bubble.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>I do think it's smart to do everything we can to sanction Russia's rich. Those people have power. They're the ones backing Putin. How? The oligarchs had a head's up regarding the start of the war and no doubt took measures to secure their wealth abroad and even get dual citizenship so the west can't touch them.

brabel 5y ago
There was a TV show where one of such oligarchs came to tears for losing two mansions in Italy, apparently :D so I don't think they are very happy or had time to "fix" the issues, at least not all of them.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >There was a TV show where one of such oligarchs came to tears for losing two mansions in Italy, apparently Well yes, sure, if we're talking about some dumb corrupt politician who blew his illicit gains frivolously on luxuries, out in the open, the second he landed on piles of cash, then yes, same how we have lottery winners who lose everything in a year and crypto speculators who also were left holding the bag, etc. My point is that stupid and financially irresponsible people are easily parted with their money, especially if it's from illicit gains and have no knowledge how to launder it or invest it, but I can assure you that the smart money took enough timely precautions to keep their dirty wealth intact.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    As an example, the west doesn't even really know where most of Putin's assets are, or what they are.