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Sure, just like companies can require you to work at certain times as a condition of employment, or wear a uniform as a condition of employment, or a hundred ot

Sure, just like companies can require you to work at certain times as a condition of employment, or wear a uniform as a condition of employment, or a hundred other things. Letting it go the other way just results in freeloader syndrome: unions fight for improved work policies and work culture for all, but you can get much of the benefits without paying in. So many people don’t, which ends up weakening the union in the long run.

eru 5y ago
You are right that free-loading is a problem in theory. But being forced to pay for services you don't actually want is also a problem.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  It's being forced the same way any other terms of employment are forced on you, and your option in this case is the same: go somewhere else. We know from history and other countries that broadly speaking, if you weaken unions with right-to-work laws, workers as a whole end up worse off. It tilts the power relationship between employees and employer towards the employer. If you look at peer countries with stronger, more present unions, you find that workers are usually considerably better off there.
  - eru 5y ago
    > We know from history and other countries that broadly speaking, if you weaken unions with right-to-work laws, workers as a whole end up worse off. > If you look at peer countries with stronger, more present unions, you find that workers are usually considerably better off there. Compare and contrast https://pseudoerasmus.com/2017/10/02/ijd/ https://pseudoerasmus.com/2017/10/02/ijd/ Also compare European countries. The more neoliberal ones tend to be richer. > It's being forced the same way any other terms of employment are forced on you, and your option in this case is the same: go somewhere else. In some sense, yes. And you can read my comment as an argument in favour of me avoiding union shops.
baud147258 5y ago
Though if paying union dues is optional, the unions present in a company will have to show they can do something to actually improve the situation of the workers and not just collect dues by just existing
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  The problem here is that much of a union’s work is improving the general work culture and policies to be more labor-friendly. Letting people pay union dues optionally means they get a lot of the benefit of the union without paying for it. Classic free rider problem.

eru 5y ago

You are right that free-loading is a problem in theory. But being forced to pay for services you don't actually want is also a problem.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
It's being forced the same way any other terms of employment are forced on you, and your option in this case is the same: go somewhere else. We know from history and other countries that broadly speaking, if you weaken unions with right-to-work laws, workers as a whole end up worse off. It tilts the power relationship between employees and employer towards the employer. If you look at peer countries with stronger, more present unions, you find that workers are usually considerably better off there.
- eru 5y ago
  > We know from history and other countries that broadly speaking, if you weaken unions with right-to-work laws, workers as a whole end up worse off. > If you look at peer countries with stronger, more present unions, you find that workers are usually considerably better off there. Compare and contrast https://pseudoerasmus.com/2017/10/02/ijd/ https://pseudoerasmus.com/2017/10/02/ijd/ Also compare European countries. The more neoliberal ones tend to be richer. > It's being forced the same way any other terms of employment are forced on you, and your option in this case is the same: go somewhere else. In some sense, yes. And you can read my comment as an argument in favour of me avoiding union shops.

baud147258 5y ago

Though if paying union dues is optional, the unions present in a company will have to show they can do something to actually improve the situation of the workers and not just collect dues by just existing

TulliusCicero 5y ago
The problem here is that much of a union’s work is improving the general work culture and policies to be more labor-friendly. Letting people pay union dues optionally means they get a lot of the benefit of the union without paying for it. Classic free rider problem.