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Unfortunately, it seems that Putin is fairly popular in Russia. Anecdotally, there's been an HN commenter around who claims to be Russian and who buys Putin's

Unfortunately, it seems that Putin is fairly popular in Russia. Anecdotally, there's been an HN commenter around who claims to be Russian and who buys Putin's line that something had to be done about NATO. Apparently they are not alone: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/europe/russia-reaction-war-ukraine-dougherty-intl-hnk https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/europe/russia-reaction-war-uk... > But Arina's mother sees it completely differently: "My mom believes everything she sees on TV," Arina says. > "She believes that it was a necessary measure by Putin because there are weapons surrounding the country...there's a threat from the West, which is why Putin is doing this." Sanctions may be indiscriminate, but not as indiscriminate nor as final as shelling apartment buildings. There seems to be a significant slice of the Russian population who are entirely too content with the current state of affairs, and who need to be woken up to the ungodly horror being unleashed in their name.

friedturkey 5y ago
So long as the people with guns have their bellies full, not much will happen in Russia. Just like as much as the world wants North Korea to change and become more free, most of the people enforcing the law can’t imagine living any other way and they’re happy to maintain the status quo. Maybe a rapid decline in quality of life will be enough to turn things around in Russia. Or maybe just enough people are so used to struggles there that nothing will change. North Koreans went through decades of wars and invasions—the people there haven’t known that life can be better, so they don’t feel a reason to revolt. People in Russia who were alive during pre-Putin era struggles most likely do really see him as lifting the country to a higher level. The possibility for Russia becoming a new NK-style state isn’t completely impossible.
- snek_case 5y ago
  The USSR collapsed over 30 years ago. There's a lot of people who were born after that, or who saw their quality of life improve after it happened. I bet you not many of them want to go back to those days.
  - Animats 5y ago
    The death rate in Russia went way up after the fall of the USSR.[1] Democracy and a free market did not deliver a better life for the average Russian. It's important to understand this, because it's part of why Russia ended up with an autocrat. [1] https://akarlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/life-expectancy-in-russia-1950-2013.png https://akarlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/life-expectan...
    - dash2 5y ago
      That death rate is IIRC mostly caused by increased alcoholism, so it may have more specific causes than just “democracy and the free market”.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Wouldn't despair about their predicament or future lead to alcoholism? Something that could be related to regime change.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Could you be more specific?
        dash2 5y ago
        This article is a response to a critique, by the original authors. It should have cites to the debate: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09668136.2012.691657 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09668136.2012.6...
    - enaaem 5y ago
      Note that the Russian economy was still organised around a Sovjet planned economy. Just because you change the legal system doesn’t mean you have fixed the economy instantly. For example there were still monotowns, where the whole town was centred around a single factory. These towns are extremely fragile in a market economy.
  - 5y ago
twh270 5y ago
Access to many viewpoints and sources of information does not mean much, as we see here in the U.S. The idea that we just need to shower Russia with the "right" information to get them to turn against Putin is simply a fantasy. However, it's still worth doing as it will help some.
- rectang 5y ago
  I don't expect plain rhetoric to change the minds of Putin supporters. Unfortunately, we have to resort to economic pain, which is quite grim even if it's not having your leg blown off and your home reduced to rubble: businesses ruined, working class populations impoverished, massive uncertainty... It's also not guaranteed to work, as aggressors and oppressors are adept at wallowing in self-pity and inventing victimization narratives. What's changed for me is that I've come to believe that the Russian population is a bit more at fault here for buying Putin's bullshit.
vixen99 5y ago
Whatever the truth of that ('she believes it was a necessary measure ...'), as someone remarked "Putin has done more for European Defence in three days than anyone's done in 30 years". The reaction of the European countries has been astounding. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/03/putin-will-live-regret-war-has-united-europe-against/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/03/putin-will-live-... Sadly paywalled.

friedturkey 5y ago

So long as the people with guns have their bellies full, not much will happen in Russia. Just like as much as the world wants North Korea to change and become more free, most of the people enforcing the law can’t imagine living any other way and they’re happy to maintain the status quo. Maybe a rapid decline in quality of life will be enough to turn things around in Russia. Or maybe just enough people are so used to struggles there that nothing will change. North Koreans went through decades of wars and invasions—the people there haven’t known that life can be better, so they don’t feel a reason to revolt. People in Russia who were alive during pre-Putin era struggles most likely do really see him as lifting the country to a higher level. The possibility for Russia becoming a new NK-style state isn’t completely impossible.

snek_case 5y ago
The USSR collapsed over 30 years ago. There's a lot of people who were born after that, or who saw their quality of life improve after it happened. I bet you not many of them want to go back to those days.
- Animats 5y ago
  The death rate in Russia went way up after the fall of the USSR.[1] Democracy and a free market did not deliver a better life for the average Russian. It's important to understand this, because it's part of why Russia ended up with an autocrat. [1] https://akarlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/life-expectancy-in-russia-1950-2013.png https://akarlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/life-expectan...
  - dash2 5y ago
    That death rate is IIRC mostly caused by increased alcoholism, so it may have more specific causes than just “democracy and the free market”.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Wouldn't despair about their predicament or future lead to alcoholism? Something that could be related to regime change.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      Could you be more specific?
      - dash2 5y ago
        This article is a response to a critique, by the original authors. It should have cites to the debate: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09668136.2012.691657 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09668136.2012.6...
  - enaaem 5y ago
    Note that the Russian economy was still organised around a Sovjet planned economy. Just because you change the legal system doesn’t mean you have fixed the economy instantly. For example there were still monotowns, where the whole town was centred around a single factory. These towns are extremely fragile in a market economy.
- 5y ago

twh270 5y ago

Access to many viewpoints and sources of information does not mean much, as we see here in the U.S. The idea that we just need to shower Russia with the "right" information to get them to turn against Putin is simply a fantasy. However, it's still worth doing as it will help some.

rectang 5y ago
I don't expect plain rhetoric to change the minds of Putin supporters. Unfortunately, we have to resort to economic pain, which is quite grim even if it's not having your leg blown off and your home reduced to rubble: businesses ruined, working class populations impoverished, massive uncertainty... It's also not guaranteed to work, as aggressors and oppressors are adept at wallowing in self-pity and inventing victimization narratives. What's changed for me is that I've come to believe that the Russian population is a bit more at fault here for buying Putin's bullshit.

vixen99 5y ago

Whatever the truth of that ('she believes it was a necessary measure ...'), as someone remarked "Putin has done more for European Defence in three days than anyone's done in 30 years". The reaction of the European countries has been astounding. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/03/putin-will-live-regret-war-has-united-europe-against/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/03/putin-will-live-... Sadly paywalled.