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Q: Do I need to be in the United States to use Stripe? A: Yes. --> FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Would you finally be the one to tell us what the hell is

Q: Do I need to be in the United States to use Stripe? A: Yes. --> FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Would you finally be the one to tell us what the hell is the problem with non-US customers?

boucher 15y ago
Unfortunately, there are just a lot of regulations when dealing with payments across international borders.
- white_devil 15y ago
  Seriously, I really need to know something about this. It's driving me mad to keep seeing promising payment services only to find out they won't deal with me. Yours is the most compelling one I've seen.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    One major barrier is that in many countries it's difficult to set up a service like this in a way that doesn't require it to be a bona-fide "bank", and setting up a bona-fide bank is often not low-overhead.
    - white_devil 15y ago
      Do they even need a presence in other countries to be able to work with companies in them?
  - maaku 15y ago
    The Patriot Act.
    - jules 15y ago
      While this reply is short it is right. The Patriot Act is the reason why these nice things generally aren't available to non US citizens. Patriot Act Section 312: http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_patriot_act_section_312.pdf http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_pat... As you can see if you want to provide this service to a foreigner then you need to do checks on this person and his bank. This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so.
      - white_devil 15y ago
        This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so. Well, why do their representatives insist it's a "top priority" then?
        jules 15y ago
        Presumably they will set up a company in Europe instead of handling it from the US company, but this takes extra time and effort so most companies start in the US (and empirically they stay that way until they become very big).
- white_devil 15y ago
  Something just occurred to me. FastSpring, which is a US company, can actually work with non-US companies just fine. Why is that? Also, at some point I asked them why they could, and BrainTree couldn't, and they said they can't really think of a reason why. So.. What exactly is the deal? I'm dying to know.
  - pmikal 15y ago
    Most merchant acquirers, as well as the US Government, will interpret sections 312 and 326 of the US Patriot Act to require a Social Security Number to positively identify a merchant application and to check the applicant against various financial crimes and terrorist lists. This essentially prohibits non-US companies. There are some exceptions, but this is generally the rule. Many of the card acceptance solutions that do not require this information are not actually issuing merchant accounts or are otherwise performing what is known as aggregration or is opening a merchant account on your behalf that they own. Some are also issuing merchant accounts in non-US banks. Others are in violation of US law.
    - chexton 15y ago
      So Stripe is in fact opening a merchant account fir each user that signs up? I am curious that a social security number is all that is required...why is it such a pain to get a merchant account with a bank or other acquirer? I am curious how Stripe can make it so simple.
      - pc 15y ago
        There are two big reasons as to why it's so painful elsewhere. One is underwriting: people want to know a lot about your business so they can figure out if you're likely to be fraudulent (or expensively incompetent). They typically do this by taking a shotgun approach to information requirements. The second reason is that it's "standard", and everybody copies the "standard" without much consideration. The companies providing merchant accounts are usually not technology companies, and historically haven't had thought much about product. We like to think that we can do much better than traditional companies on both counts.
powertower 15y ago
Not being able to cope with the fraud is the #1 reason why payment processors fail. Most of the fraud happens with accounts outside the US. New payment processors always start with the US and slowly expand outward. Being able to deal with fraud is how PayPal made itself when everyone that came before it failed.
- white_devil 15y ago
  Most of the fraud happens with accounts outside the US. That's true, but too broad a brush. There's a difference between your average European country and China/Russia.
  - jcitme 15y ago
    And that's why you expand to europe first.

Q: Do I need to be in the United States to use Stripe? A: Yes. --> FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Would you finally be the one to tell us what the hell is the problem with non-US customers?

boucher 15y ago

Unfortunately, there are just a lot of regulations when dealing with payments across international borders.

white_devil 15y ago
Seriously, I really need to know something about this. It's driving me mad to keep seeing promising payment services only to find out they won't deal with me. Yours is the most compelling one I've seen.
- _delirium 15y ago
  One major barrier is that in many countries it's difficult to set up a service like this in a way that doesn't require it to be a bona-fide "bank", and setting up a bona-fide bank is often not low-overhead.
  - white_devil 15y ago
    Do they even need a presence in other countries to be able to work with companies in them?
- maaku 15y ago
  The Patriot Act.
  - jules 15y ago
    While this reply is short it is right. The Patriot Act is the reason why these nice things generally aren't available to non US citizens. Patriot Act Section 312: http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_patriot_act_section_312.pdf http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_pat... As you can see if you want to provide this service to a foreigner then you need to do checks on this person and his bank. This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so.
    - white_devil 15y ago
      This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so. Well, why do their representatives insist it's a "top priority" then?
      - jules 15y ago
        Presumably they will set up a company in Europe instead of handling it from the US company, but this takes extra time and effort so most companies start in the US (and empirically they stay that way until they become very big).
white_devil 15y ago
Something just occurred to me. FastSpring, which is a US company, can actually work with non-US companies just fine. Why is that? Also, at some point I asked them why they could, and BrainTree couldn't, and they said they can't really think of a reason why. So.. What exactly is the deal? I'm dying to know.
- pmikal 15y ago
  Most merchant acquirers, as well as the US Government, will interpret sections 312 and 326 of the US Patriot Act to require a Social Security Number to positively identify a merchant application and to check the applicant against various financial crimes and terrorist lists. This essentially prohibits non-US companies. There are some exceptions, but this is generally the rule. Many of the card acceptance solutions that do not require this information are not actually issuing merchant accounts or are otherwise performing what is known as aggregration or is opening a merchant account on your behalf that they own. Some are also issuing merchant accounts in non-US banks. Others are in violation of US law.
  - chexton 15y ago
    So Stripe is in fact opening a merchant account fir each user that signs up? I am curious that a social security number is all that is required...why is it such a pain to get a merchant account with a bank or other acquirer? I am curious how Stripe can make it so simple.
    - pc 15y ago
      There are two big reasons as to why it's so painful elsewhere. One is underwriting: people want to know a lot about your business so they can figure out if you're likely to be fraudulent (or expensively incompetent). They typically do this by taking a shotgun approach to information requirements. The second reason is that it's "standard", and everybody copies the "standard" without much consideration. The companies providing merchant accounts are usually not technology companies, and historically haven't had thought much about product. We like to think that we can do much better than traditional companies on both counts.

powertower 15y ago

Not being able to cope with the fraud is the #1 reason why payment processors fail. Most of the fraud happens with accounts outside the US. New payment processors always start with the US and slowly expand outward. Being able to deal with fraud is how PayPal made itself when everyone that came before it failed.

white_devil 15y ago
Most of the fraud happens with accounts outside the US. That's true, but too broad a brush. There's a difference between your average European country and China/Russia.
- jcitme 15y ago
  And that's why you expand to europe first.