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I mean... I don't want to sound harsh or like a Brave shill, but it sounds like you installed it without having a clue about what it is. I keep seeing negative

I mean... I don't want to sound harsh or like a Brave shill, but it sounds like you installed it without having a clue about what it is. I keep seeing negative comments about it that are dismissive like this or just plain wrong and I even though I don't even use it anymore I believe it's highly injusticed. First off, if you installed it and used it to the point where it showed you an ad, you must have seen the initial screen asking whether you'd like to opt into ads. There's no dark pattern, it's spelled out for you. If you just went "yeah, yeah, whatever", that's on you. Second, the reason why they have ads is pretty much why the browser itself exists. They introduced a suite of privacy features and an ad model that aims to be privacy-preserving and sustainable (especially in the sense of not letting the web turn into a content cesspool like Google has been doing). In fact their model is the only one I've seen so far that is actually desirable to all actors (advertisers, content producers and content consumers -- yes, including those that don't want any ads, ever). It's a shame it comes with all the stigma crypto has and so it's unlikely to take off.

soared 5y ago
Replacing publishers ads with your own and stealing their revenue is not sustainable. Even if you allow them to sign up and claim that revenue. Also to be clear, brave is not remotely desirable to advertisers. (See my post history) I manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend and 0% of that goes to brave. Full stop. Brave is adlbocking crypto circle jerk and nothing more. Give me a browser that is privacy first without crypto/scam bullshit and I am all in.
- dreadlordbone 5y ago
  "Replacing publishers ads with your own and stealing their revenue is not sustainable. Even if you allow them to sign up and claim that revenue." Tell that to Google.
  - soared 5y ago
    Google doesn’t do that
    - prepend 5y ago
      Google news takes newspaper headlines and content, removes the ads, and displays their own ads in the feed. This is the same for all the content preview used by Google in search results alongside ads.
      - soared 5y ago
        Oh knowledge panels - that is actually a fair argument. I don’t know much about the topic but your point makes more sense now.
  - HJain13 5y ago
    Huh? I am probably OOTL, but when/how did Google did that?
  - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
    I guess this is more of an analogy, but it seems that a huge amount of the revenue of the ad industry now goes to Google, where it didn't before, so I can see where the op may be coming from.
- weq 5y ago
- no_time 5y ago
  >Give me a browser that is privacy first without crypto/scam bullshit and I am all in. The Tor browser, not necessarily using onion routing is the option with the least compromises of your privacy.
- prepend 5y ago
  > stealing their revenue is not sustainable. No, that’s not stealing. Yes, it is sustainable (as evidenced by Brave’s ongoing viability as a company). There used to be a free ISP called NetZero that would give you free dial up if you ran an app that ran at the bottom of your screen and showed ads. I used to adjust the screen so those 100 pixels (or whatever) didn’t show. That wasn’t stealing. On my hardware, I can do whatever I want with what you send me. If you send me ads, I can choose not to look at them. I can write a program that hides the ads. I can use someone else’s program to hide the ads. It’s strange that somehow my behavior is “stealing” and that shows a bizarre intellectual outlook on reality, to me. Am I stealing when I mute ads on broadcast tv? Am I stealing when I don’t look at billboards on the side of the road? Am I stealing if I write an AR app that replaces billboards with pictures of kittens? (Or other ads?) Finally, brave runs great with ads and crypto turned off. So I frequently run it as a “free-loader” and am grateful to the people who watch the ads and use the crypto to keep them in business.
  - soared 5y ago
    It is not stealing from the user, it is brave stealing from the website. Brave takes revenue that would have gone to the website. If you Adblock/etc that revenue is never generated. If you use brave, the revenue is generated and stolen by brave.
    - prepend 5y ago
      That’s not stealing. Again, all my examples are me avoiding ads, is that stealing? Why would an AR goggle replacing IRL ads with their own be stealing? If I run a pi-hole on my network, am I stealing from all the advertisers I block? What if I charge $1 for access to that network? Am I stealing $1 because the ads are never shown and I show an ad asking for $1. Are people who sell pi-holes stealing? I think that any moral expectation of people sending data to me, on my devices is comically wrong. If advertisers want to force ads then give out hardware that they control. I won’t take it, but maybe some will.
      - soared 5y ago
seumars 5y ago
Just so you know: abusing common patterns in user experience ("yeah, yeah, whatever") IS what makes it a dark pattern.
- prepend 5y ago
  I think it depends. I think when the material is hard to follow or customer negative and hidden, it’s a dark pattern. In this case the brave install is a pretty straightforward Yes/No prompt with focus on Yes so people will tap it out of habit. I think the important factor is the harm in the default action. In this case, it shows ad notifications (pretty annoying) and accrues crypto coins (pretty invisible). I’d be angrier if it consented to sharing all data for whatever purposes they’d like (ie, apps that upload all contacts and photos).

soared 5y ago

Replacing publishers ads with your own and stealing their revenue is not sustainable. Even if you allow them to sign up and claim that revenue. Also to be clear, brave is not remotely desirable to advertisers. (See my post history) I manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend and 0% of that goes to brave. Full stop. Brave is adlbocking crypto circle jerk and nothing more. Give me a browser that is privacy first without crypto/scam bullshit and I am all in.

dreadlordbone 5y ago
"Replacing publishers ads with your own and stealing their revenue is not sustainable. Even if you allow them to sign up and claim that revenue." Tell that to Google.
- soared 5y ago
  Google doesn’t do that
  - prepend 5y ago
    Google news takes newspaper headlines and content, removes the ads, and displays their own ads in the feed. This is the same for all the content preview used by Google in search results alongside ads.
    - soared 5y ago
      Oh knowledge panels - that is actually a fair argument. I don’t know much about the topic but your point makes more sense now.
- HJain13 5y ago
  Huh? I am probably OOTL, but when/how did Google did that?
- hackerfromthefu 5y ago
  I guess this is more of an analogy, but it seems that a huge amount of the revenue of the ad industry now goes to Google, where it didn't before, so I can see where the op may be coming from.
weq 5y ago
no_time 5y ago
>Give me a browser that is privacy first without crypto/scam bullshit and I am all in. The Tor browser, not necessarily using onion routing is the option with the least compromises of your privacy.
prepend 5y ago
> stealing their revenue is not sustainable. No, that’s not stealing. Yes, it is sustainable (as evidenced by Brave’s ongoing viability as a company). There used to be a free ISP called NetZero that would give you free dial up if you ran an app that ran at the bottom of your screen and showed ads. I used to adjust the screen so those 100 pixels (or whatever) didn’t show. That wasn’t stealing. On my hardware, I can do whatever I want with what you send me. If you send me ads, I can choose not to look at them. I can write a program that hides the ads. I can use someone else’s program to hide the ads. It’s strange that somehow my behavior is “stealing” and that shows a bizarre intellectual outlook on reality, to me. Am I stealing when I mute ads on broadcast tv? Am I stealing when I don’t look at billboards on the side of the road? Am I stealing if I write an AR app that replaces billboards with pictures of kittens? (Or other ads?) Finally, brave runs great with ads and crypto turned off. So I frequently run it as a “free-loader” and am grateful to the people who watch the ads and use the crypto to keep them in business.
- soared 5y ago
  It is not stealing from the user, it is brave stealing from the website. Brave takes revenue that would have gone to the website. If you Adblock/etc that revenue is never generated. If you use brave, the revenue is generated and stolen by brave.
  - prepend 5y ago
    That’s not stealing. Again, all my examples are me avoiding ads, is that stealing? Why would an AR goggle replacing IRL ads with their own be stealing? If I run a pi-hole on my network, am I stealing from all the advertisers I block? What if I charge $1 for access to that network? Am I stealing $1 because the ads are never shown and I show an ad asking for $1. Are people who sell pi-holes stealing? I think that any moral expectation of people sending data to me, on my devices is comically wrong. If advertisers want to force ads then give out hardware that they control. I won’t take it, but maybe some will.
    - soared 5y ago

seumars 5y ago

Just so you know: abusing common patterns in user experience ("yeah, yeah, whatever") IS what makes it a dark pattern.

prepend 5y ago
I think it depends. I think when the material is hard to follow or customer negative and hidden, it’s a dark pattern. In this case the brave install is a pretty straightforward Yes/No prompt with focus on Yes so people will tap it out of habit. I think the important factor is the harm in the default action. In this case, it shows ad notifications (pretty annoying) and accrues crypto coins (pretty invisible). I’d be angrier if it consented to sharing all data for whatever purposes they’d like (ie, apps that upload all contacts and photos).