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The tech pessimism in this community really is getting out of hand. Nothing but burns, seeking only negatives, bad faith assumptions and not giving any idea any

by fleddr 5y ago

The tech pessimism in this community really is getting out of hand. Nothing but burns, seeking only negatives, bad faith assumptions and not giving any idea any chance. When you install Brave, it's going to ask you about that Brave rewards thing. It's opt-in. Nothing will happen if you have some sweeping rage against crypto. And the thing asking you for it, it takes one click to hide it. Congrats. Now you have an incredibly snappy browser. It's Chrome without all the Google-specific crap. Whereas using uBlock is a massive performance improvement, Brave is a similarly large EXTRA performance improvement. Click around some heavy content websites, performance is near-instant. I'm on a very high-end desktop and even then the difference between ordinary Chrome and Brave is extreme. Although privacy comparisons between browsers are complex, Brave scores high if not highest. Unlike Mozilla, they don't need to make exceptions for Google. Brave has made a few mistakes in this area, all quite inconsequential, but they were quick to correct it. They're not like Mozilla that sits 7 years on a ticket. So it's extremely fast and top-notch in terms of privacy. It has a built-in ad blocker, is has the option of using Tor for private windows, directly built-in. How cool is that? Wayback integration for 404s? Thoughtful and clever. They dare to innovate. For example, they support IPFS directly inside the browser. You may not need it, but it's an interesting technology to explore if you care about tech at all. And if not IPFS, just the idea in itself of a browser going a bit bleeding edge should be celebrated. And I extend that thought to their add-on products. Like chat or video calls, alternatives to the big tech versions of those. Why not? They may never become successful but why shut the door before you tried it? These are attempts at the alternative internet done the right way, the work that Mozilla would be doing, if they weren't so dysfunctional. Why stamp all of that into the ground before even seriously looking at it? And about that crypto-based rewards program, before you make up your mind, you know what else one can do? Try it. Wire 10$ into a wallet. Send BAT tokens to websites that you appreciate. Congrats, you now used crypto. You're not a criminal, nobody will arrest you, you didn't burn the planet and didn't get kicked out of the political party. You send small money to people you like. The shock, the horror.

throwamon 5y ago
I just replied to another comment and I'm just now reading yours, this is how I'd like to have worded mine. Brave is doing so much right (and I'm counting fearless experimentation as "right") and getting so much unjustified flak it makes me believe there's big money being poured into shit-talking it.
- striking 5y ago
  As much as I'd love to dig into whatever conspiracy theory you're coming up with, I think it'd be more constructive to point out that you've (likely unintentionally) become one of the participants in a Suck/Rock dichotomy[1]. That is to say, I didn't particularly have an opinion on Brave before reading these comments, but now (especially having read this one) I am very much disinclined to try it. The breathless praise for this browser that appears to add a handful of bells and whistles (and also ads and crypto that people apparently haven't realized they've opted themselves into) really just makes me want to stay away from whatever community has built up around this browser. 1: https://nealford.com/memeagora/2009/08/05/suck-rock-dichotomy.html https://nealford.com/memeagora/2009/08/05/suck-rock-dichotom...
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    Heh I would not call this breathless praise. There's a minority of posters that like Brave, while the majority either refute the praise or dislike Brave (or both). If you want to dislike Brave go ahead, but at least try to form that opinion a semi-informed basis.
  - sundarurfriend 5y ago
    Exactly the opposite happened with me, a few months ago. Brave posts were getting so much mindless hate, and every argument involved shifting goalposts or people just running away when asked specific factual questions in response to their vague FUDding. I was a long term Firefox user who was looking for an additional browser to check out and partially switch to, and this astounding amount of vitriol made me want to check out Brave and see what had these people all riled up. (And I believe the answer is crypto - any association with it at all. There was a long period when crypto threads were just complete hatefests - yes, even more than today - and I think it's the Moxie web3 article, despite being generally against crypto, shifted the general tone of these to have some actual thoughtful comments. And the Brave thread here seems to have experienced the exact same change compared to before.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
smoldesu 5y ago
> you know what else one can do? Try it. Wire 10$ into a wallet. Send BAT tokens to websites that you appreciate. 1. That money doesn't go to the websites, since they have to make a wallet first (and I can damn well guarantee you that 95+% of the blogs I visit don't have it set up) 2. I'm not paying for $10 of cryptocurrency just so Brave can take 30% off my transactions.
- numeri 5y ago
  But isn't this fundamentally better than the current privacy-destroying ad-tracker hellscape we live in? Sure, some of us can use adblockers, but that won't work if everyone starts using them. Companies will switch to different, still invasive systems. Brave's idea is a lot closer to what I'd like the ideal world to look like, even if my ideal world wouldn't involve a middleman that took a 30% cut.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > But isn't this fundamentally better than the current privacy-destroying ad-tracker hellscape we live in? > even if my ideal world wouldn't involve a middleman that took a 30% cut. “Knowing where the trap is — that's the first step in evading it.” - Frank Herbert, Dune
- fleddr 5y ago
  You're not wrong, but my bigger point was a general stance against tech pessimism. It seems people make up their mind in about 3 seconds and come up with many reasons as to why something is absolutely bad in a very binary way. As said, you can avoid the crypto part altogether, it's not mandatory. Or, even taking your issues into account, you can try to find some websites you like that do have a wallet, and have a play with it.
  - jamesmudgett 5y ago
    Wikipedia is a good example of a verified site that most people use
throw16489 5y ago
// Unlike Mozilla, they don't need to make exceptions for Google. // They're not like Mozilla that sits 7 years on a ticket. Suppose a browser is an iceberg. Mozilla has to maintain, improve and develop on the whole of the iceberg. In case of Brave, Google and Chromium developers do maybe 90 or 95% of the iceberg? My understanding is that the Chromium codebase is one of the largest and complex ones ever? I also read somewhere is has a large amount of churn/flux, but not sure. I'm not saying Brave does not add anything of value, but let's do a fair comparison.
- fleddr 5y ago
  You're absolutely right, but not everybody understands the consequences. Mozilla/Gecko is on life support with no light at the end of the tunnel. When the ex-CTO of Mozilla picks Chromium to run Brave, and Microsoft picks Chromium for Edge, things become pretty clear: Chromium/V8 is the standard. And not just the standard, also the superior, future-proof engine. So yes, Brave gets a lot of things "for free", but that's a smart move. Ultimately users and developers don't care.
  - soundnote 5y ago
    Brave was originally based on Gecko, for what it's worth.
    - fleddr 5y ago
      I did not know that, that makes it even more painful.
creativenolo 5y ago
> The tech pessimism in this community really is getting out of hand. So true in this thread. All the top rated comments are by people who don't use Brave but are jumping on the chance to knock it. From my experience Brave is frictionless to use & configure whilst providing much value. I'm happy to see Brave offer a useful feature with an opportunity to monetise part of it and become a sustainable Browser - which is surely what they are trying to do and innovating around.
prepend 5y ago
I wonder about this and seems like a mismatch with my Brave experience (a pretty good browser, not something I care much about and I use it quite a bit but will switch in 5 minute for a better). I wonder if the “shade throwing” is subconscious because so many work for/like Google. Or because of dislike for the Brave CEO’s historical stance. I tend to notice (or think I notice) when there’s a mismatch between a tech and the conversation by tech people and find it curious and want to find the true reason.

by fleddr 5y ago

throwamon 5y ago

I just replied to another comment and I'm just now reading yours, this is how I'd like to have worded mine. Brave is doing so much right (and I'm counting fearless experimentation as "right") and getting so much unjustified flak it makes me believe there's big money being poured into shit-talking it.

striking 5y ago
As much as I'd love to dig into whatever conspiracy theory you're coming up with, I think it'd be more constructive to point out that you've (likely unintentionally) become one of the participants in a Suck/Rock dichotomy[1]. That is to say, I didn't particularly have an opinion on Brave before reading these comments, but now (especially having read this one) I am very much disinclined to try it. The breathless praise for this browser that appears to add a handful of bells and whistles (and also ads and crypto that people apparently haven't realized they've opted themselves into) really just makes me want to stay away from whatever community has built up around this browser. 1: https://nealford.com/memeagora/2009/08/05/suck-rock-dichotomy.html https://nealford.com/memeagora/2009/08/05/suck-rock-dichotom...
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  Heh I would not call this breathless praise. There's a minority of posters that like Brave, while the majority either refute the praise or dislike Brave (or both). If you want to dislike Brave go ahead, but at least try to form that opinion a semi-informed basis.
- sundarurfriend 5y ago
  Exactly the opposite happened with me, a few months ago. Brave posts were getting so much mindless hate, and every argument involved shifting goalposts or people just running away when asked specific factual questions in response to their vague FUDding. I was a long term Firefox user who was looking for an additional browser to check out and partially switch to, and this astounding amount of vitriol made me want to check out Brave and see what had these people all riled up. (And I believe the answer is crypto - any association with it at all. There was a long period when crypto threads were just complete hatefests - yes, even more than today - and I think it's the Moxie web3 article, despite being generally against crypto, shifted the general tone of these to have some actual thoughtful comments. And the Brave thread here seems to have experienced the exact same change compared to before.)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

smoldesu 5y ago

> you know what else one can do? Try it. Wire 10$ into a wallet. Send BAT tokens to websites that you appreciate. 1. That money doesn't go to the websites, since they have to make a wallet first (and I can damn well guarantee you that 95+% of the blogs I visit don't have it set up) 2. I'm not paying for $10 of cryptocurrency just so Brave can take 30% off my transactions.

numeri 5y ago
But isn't this fundamentally better than the current privacy-destroying ad-tracker hellscape we live in? Sure, some of us can use adblockers, but that won't work if everyone starts using them. Companies will switch to different, still invasive systems. Brave's idea is a lot closer to what I'd like the ideal world to look like, even if my ideal world wouldn't involve a middleman that took a 30% cut.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  > But isn't this fundamentally better than the current privacy-destroying ad-tracker hellscape we live in? > even if my ideal world wouldn't involve a middleman that took a 30% cut. “Knowing where the trap is — that's the first step in evading it.” - Frank Herbert, Dune
fleddr 5y ago
You're not wrong, but my bigger point was a general stance against tech pessimism. It seems people make up their mind in about 3 seconds and come up with many reasons as to why something is absolutely bad in a very binary way. As said, you can avoid the crypto part altogether, it's not mandatory. Or, even taking your issues into account, you can try to find some websites you like that do have a wallet, and have a play with it.
- jamesmudgett 5y ago
  Wikipedia is a good example of a verified site that most people use

throw16489 5y ago

// Unlike Mozilla, they don't need to make exceptions for Google. // They're not like Mozilla that sits 7 years on a ticket. Suppose a browser is an iceberg. Mozilla has to maintain, improve and develop on the whole of the iceberg. In case of Brave, Google and Chromium developers do maybe 90 or 95% of the iceberg? My understanding is that the Chromium codebase is one of the largest and complex ones ever? I also read somewhere is has a large amount of churn/flux, but not sure. I'm not saying Brave does not add anything of value, but let's do a fair comparison.

fleddr 5y ago
You're absolutely right, but not everybody understands the consequences. Mozilla/Gecko is on life support with no light at the end of the tunnel. When the ex-CTO of Mozilla picks Chromium to run Brave, and Microsoft picks Chromium for Edge, things become pretty clear: Chromium/V8 is the standard. And not just the standard, also the superior, future-proof engine. So yes, Brave gets a lot of things "for free", but that's a smart move. Ultimately users and developers don't care.
- soundnote 5y ago
  Brave was originally based on Gecko, for what it's worth.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    I did not know that, that makes it even more painful.

creativenolo 5y ago

> The tech pessimism in this community really is getting out of hand. So true in this thread. All the top rated comments are by people who don't use Brave but are jumping on the chance to knock it. From my experience Brave is frictionless to use & configure whilst providing much value. I'm happy to see Brave offer a useful feature with an opportunity to monetise part of it and become a sustainable Browser - which is surely what they are trying to do and innovating around.

prepend 5y ago

I wonder about this and seems like a mismatch with my Brave experience (a pretty good browser, not something I care much about and I use it quite a bit but will switch in 5 minute for a better). I wonder if the “shade throwing” is subconscious because so many work for/like Google. Or because of dislike for the Brave CEO’s historical stance. I tend to notice (or think I notice) when there’s a mismatch between a tech and the conversation by tech people and find it curious and want to find the true reason.