4 ms·

Okay I figured out how to denuclearize the world. The billionaires can take their rockets and start a self sufficient break-away colony on the far side of the m

Okay I figured out how to denuclearize the world. The billionaires can take their rockets and start a self sufficient break-away colony on the far side of the moon and take a bunch of nukes with them. The location will be secret and not easily observable and maybe underground to be totally resistant to any attack. Then they can hold the world hostage threatening to start nuking major cities of any nation that does not give up it's nukes immediately. Since there is no more MAD, nations will have to comply. Then hopefully they will give up theirs...

fernly 5y ago
So the threat is, "Give up the weapons that could kill millions of people, or we will kill millions of people." Oooookay, got it.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Yea, plus why tf would we want billionaires in charge? They already are and things are completely fucked
  - seiferteric 5y ago
    it was not a serious comment...
- nescioquid 5y ago
  But think of the efficiency! It was dry, but the funny bit, I think, is that Terran civilization can somehow get along without its billionaires.
  - _jal 5y ago
    Billionaires are not required for civilization. Put aside the hereditary wealthy, whom I don't think you're thinking of, either. The existence of billionaires is an artifact of inefficient legal and economic systems, and the set of people who would work hard at whatever example you're thinking of for $billions but not for lesser, but still extreme, wealth is null. Discuss.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      Money serves two purposes, rewarding people and putting control of resources in the hands of people and institutions most able to invest them wisely. Billionaires are not necessary for the first but they are for the second. If you think that a billion-dollar company can exist, then combining what we know about the inefficiency of committees with that fact we arrive at the conclusion that perhaps some people can reasonably be given control of billions as well. Billionaires spend a small fraction of their money on superyachts and keep most of it invested which is the system working if you believe in it.
      - joshuahaglund 5y ago
        We haven't always had this extreme degree of income and wealth inequality. Investments still happened.
      - catlifeonmars 5y ago
        While I think you’re correct that money can serve those two purposes, I don’t think that it in fact does so universally or exclusively, or even necessarily intentionally.
      - LeonB 5y ago
        I don’t know if you’ve spotted this - but money serves a couple of other purposes too. Some people use money to destroy or buy out their competitors. Some people use money to bribe or corrupt politicians and by extension to corrupt the entire democratic process. Some people use money to influence the media. And in these and many other ways, money can be used to make even more money in a runaway cycle without there being an efficient allocation of resources.
        whatshisface 5y ago
        On an abstract level, money can buy politicians, but politicians can redistribute money to buy votes (and maybe save a cut for themselves). I have always wondered why one of those happens but the other does not.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
no billionaire would ever want to live in space full time, it’s miserable
- eru 5y ago
  There's quite a few billionaires around with all kinds of preferences.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    There’s no luxury in space
    - eru 5y ago
      Yes? Not everyone is into luxuries.
trhway 5y ago
what you are describing is an interplanetary MAD, kind of Expanse style. We're definitely coming to it. Moon and Mars colonies will have nuclear reactors and Mars ships will be nuclear. The weaponization will happen the first moment some threat happens, which is a given. >totally resistant to any attack it isn't possible for any non-minor period of time as the other side would go exponential in their effort to change that.
- seiferteric 5y ago
  Yes but I was thinking of one group can get the early "highground" they can shoot down any others attempting to start another colony or probe their location, then permanently maintain order "down there".
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    That's Old Man's War (2005, Scalzi) [0], itself a twist on the (much darker) The Forever War (1974, Haldeman) [1]. Both are predicated on the extra-Earth faction having overwhelming technological superiority and resources. Gravity is not that helpful. So, not "initial colony" stages. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War
HarryHirsch 5y ago
That's the premise of Ernst Jünger's Heliopolis. Doesn't prevent war and ethnic persecution, though.

fernly 5y ago

So the threat is, "Give up the weapons that could kill millions of people, or we will kill millions of people." Oooookay, got it.

netizen-936824 5y ago
Yea, plus why tf would we want billionaires in charge? They already are and things are completely fucked
- seiferteric 5y ago
  it was not a serious comment...
nescioquid 5y ago
But think of the efficiency! It was dry, but the funny bit, I think, is that Terran civilization can somehow get along without its billionaires.
- _jal 5y ago
  Billionaires are not required for civilization. Put aside the hereditary wealthy, whom I don't think you're thinking of, either. The existence of billionaires is an artifact of inefficient legal and economic systems, and the set of people who would work hard at whatever example you're thinking of for $billions but not for lesser, but still extreme, wealth is null. Discuss.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Money serves two purposes, rewarding people and putting control of resources in the hands of people and institutions most able to invest them wisely. Billionaires are not necessary for the first but they are for the second. If you think that a billion-dollar company can exist, then combining what we know about the inefficiency of committees with that fact we arrive at the conclusion that perhaps some people can reasonably be given control of billions as well. Billionaires spend a small fraction of their money on superyachts and keep most of it invested which is the system working if you believe in it.
    - joshuahaglund 5y ago
      We haven't always had this extreme degree of income and wealth inequality. Investments still happened.
    - catlifeonmars 5y ago
      While I think you’re correct that money can serve those two purposes, I don’t think that it in fact does so universally or exclusively, or even necessarily intentionally.
    - LeonB 5y ago
      I don’t know if you’ve spotted this - but money serves a couple of other purposes too. Some people use money to destroy or buy out their competitors. Some people use money to bribe or corrupt politicians and by extension to corrupt the entire democratic process. Some people use money to influence the media. And in these and many other ways, money can be used to make even more money in a runaway cycle without there being an efficient allocation of resources.
      - whatshisface 5y ago
        On an abstract level, money can buy politicians, but politicians can redistribute money to buy votes (and maybe save a cut for themselves). I have always wondered why one of those happens but the other does not.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

no billionaire would ever want to live in space full time, it’s miserable

eru 5y ago
There's quite a few billionaires around with all kinds of preferences.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  There’s no luxury in space
  - eru 5y ago
    Yes? Not everyone is into luxuries.

trhway 5y ago

what you are describing is an interplanetary MAD, kind of Expanse style. We're definitely coming to it. Moon and Mars colonies will have nuclear reactors and Mars ships will be nuclear. The weaponization will happen the first moment some threat happens, which is a given. >totally resistant to any attack it isn't possible for any non-minor period of time as the other side would go exponential in their effort to change that.

seiferteric 5y ago
Yes but I was thinking of one group can get the early "highground" they can shoot down any others attempting to start another colony or probe their location, then permanently maintain order "down there".
- ethbr0 5y ago
  That's Old Man's War (2005, Scalzi) [0], itself a twist on the (much darker) The Forever War (1974, Haldeman) [1]. Both are predicated on the extra-Earth faction having overwhelming technological superiority and resources. Gravity is not that helpful. So, not "initial colony" stages. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War

HarryHirsch 5y ago

That's the premise of Ernst Jünger's Heliopolis. Doesn't prevent war and ethnic persecution, though.