3 ms·

What is the purpose of the ban? Is it really doing anything to undermine Russia’s leadership? My guess is that this harms chess players who happen to be Russian

What is the purpose of the ban? Is it really doing anything to undermine Russia’s leadership? My guess is that this harms chess players who happen to be Russian but who have no control over the government and doesn’t do anything to hinder the actual Russian government in any meaningful way.

aaomidi 5y ago
Yeah as an Iranian, I have experience with these sort of decisions and they are discriminatory and an excuse for xenophobia. I never chose where I was born. I left the second I could. Holding me to my birthplace is just as fucked as having a "no Browns allowed" sign.
goto11 5y ago
The purpose of the ban is to weaken and undermine the Putin regime. Of course it is unfortunate for the players not getting to play a chess match, but if this ban (along with all the other economic and cultural sanctions) shorten the war by just a day, surely that sacrifice would be well worth it.
- plandis 5y ago
  Perhaps I’m missing something but I really don’t see _how_ banning chess players shortens a war that those same chess players have no control over.
  - goto11 5y ago
    There is no way to hit Putin and his war chest directly. The intent of the sanctions is to indirectly weaken him and his power structure and undermine his public support. The cultural sanctions are certainly the mildest, the economic sanctions are going to hit the average Russian a lot harder. All of the sanctions work together to send a clear message. Will it work? We don't know. Sanctions does not have a good track record of being effective, but on the other hand such a massive package of sanctions have been tried before. Of course the effect of any single sanction seem negligible. Does it stop the war to cancel a chess match? Of course not. Does it stop the war to seize some billionaires Yacht? Probably not. But the combined force of all the sanctions hopefully have an effect. Some say that popular support does not matter because Putin is a dictator. However Putin himself clearly believe popular support is important, otherwise why the need for the massive propaganda and silencing dissenting voices? When taking about the fairness of the sanctions, realize that a "fair and proportional response" according to international law would be to literally bomb and shell Russians cities.
    - cutemonster 5y ago
      > weaken him and his power structure and undermine his public support A problem is, these things can also make him stronger? And increase pubic support. If people start getting "bullied" because they happened to be born in Russia, then maybe some of them will start disliking Europe, and think "Putin not so bad after all". What if you threw stones through someone's window, because they were born in Russia? Do you think that makes Putin weaker or stronger Not saying I know what to do, or that I have the answers.
      - goto11 5y ago
        Putin only got stronger and bolder after the mild and ineffectual international response to the annexation of Crimea. So you are basally saying, if the West does nothing, Putin gets stronger, if the West strike back against Russia, Putin also gets stronger. So what do you suggest could possibly work?
        cutemonster 5y ago
        Most sanctions make sense to me. If I say, "this animal looks cute but it might bite", then, I'm not saying that all animals will bite you. One sanction seems maybe-bad. But I'm not saying all sanctions are bad. On the contrary, most are good I think, eg SWIFT. I want more sanctions: stop the gas.

aaomidi 5y ago

Yeah as an Iranian, I have experience with these sort of decisions and they are discriminatory and an excuse for xenophobia. I never chose where I was born. I left the second I could. Holding me to my birthplace is just as fucked as having a "no Browns allowed" sign.

goto11 5y ago

The purpose of the ban is to weaken and undermine the Putin regime. Of course it is unfortunate for the players not getting to play a chess match, but if this ban (along with all the other economic and cultural sanctions) shorten the war by just a day, surely that sacrifice would be well worth it.

plandis 5y ago
Perhaps I’m missing something but I really don’t see _how_ banning chess players shortens a war that those same chess players have no control over.
- goto11 5y ago
  There is no way to hit Putin and his war chest directly. The intent of the sanctions is to indirectly weaken him and his power structure and undermine his public support. The cultural sanctions are certainly the mildest, the economic sanctions are going to hit the average Russian a lot harder. All of the sanctions work together to send a clear message. Will it work? We don't know. Sanctions does not have a good track record of being effective, but on the other hand such a massive package of sanctions have been tried before. Of course the effect of any single sanction seem negligible. Does it stop the war to cancel a chess match? Of course not. Does it stop the war to seize some billionaires Yacht? Probably not. But the combined force of all the sanctions hopefully have an effect. Some say that popular support does not matter because Putin is a dictator. However Putin himself clearly believe popular support is important, otherwise why the need for the massive propaganda and silencing dissenting voices? When taking about the fairness of the sanctions, realize that a "fair and proportional response" according to international law would be to literally bomb and shell Russians cities.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    > weaken him and his power structure and undermine his public support A problem is, these things can also make him stronger? And increase pubic support. If people start getting "bullied" because they happened to be born in Russia, then maybe some of them will start disliking Europe, and think "Putin not so bad after all". What if you threw stones through someone's window, because they were born in Russia? Do you think that makes Putin weaker or stronger Not saying I know what to do, or that I have the answers.
    - goto11 5y ago
      Putin only got stronger and bolder after the mild and ineffectual international response to the annexation of Crimea. So you are basally saying, if the West does nothing, Putin gets stronger, if the West strike back against Russia, Putin also gets stronger. So what do you suggest could possibly work?
      - cutemonster 5y ago
        Most sanctions make sense to me. If I say, "this animal looks cute but it might bite", then, I'm not saying that all animals will bite you. One sanction seems maybe-bad. But I'm not saying all sanctions are bad. On the contrary, most are good I think, eg SWIFT. I want more sanctions: stop the gas.