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> You went from claiming you’re “pro-testing” to claiming that the test is “unusual”, “gross”, and “intrusive”. I am pro testing. Are you suggesting that they

> You went from claiming you’re “pro-testing” to claiming that the test is “unusual”, “gross”, and “intrusive”. I am pro testing. Are you suggesting that they are mutually exclusive ideas? (Plus, that was meant to be from the kid's perspective, hence the bit about sticking things where they are told not to be sticking things; that might not have come across well, admittedly.) I am not feigning outrage. I'm suggesting to you that you're being overbroad with your assertions in this context. > virtually always Sums it up.

dpark 5y ago
I don’t think kids generally see the tests as particularly gross. (They like to put their fingers up there, remember?) And certainly not unusual, not now at least. Maybe intrusive, but kids put up with far more intrusive stuff all the time. I brush my kids’ teeth for them. That is way more intrusive than a nasal swab. It also takes way longer. Kids are quite adept at accepting things if the parents are consistent and reasonable. I see lots of little kids wearing masks whenever they’re in public because their parents and caregivers expect it. I see other kids who don’t and some of their parents explain to me all about how their kids “can’t” (with no hint of why they can’t). No surprise. If you don’t expect something, you’ll find your kids don’t do it. (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) And yeah, some kids are special needs in some way. But most are not. I’ve also had parents tell me that the only way they can get their kids to ever calm down is to put them in front of the TV. Sure. That’s definitely your kid and not your fault. > I am not feigning outrage. I'm suggesting to you that you're being overbroad with your assertions in this context. I‘ve been pretty clear that I agree some kids have special needs and should get special accommodations. My point was that in general kids are totally fine with being swabbed for tests. (At least in the US. Sounds like your UK kits maybe suck.) Claiming that in general kids are being traumatized by being swabbed is an outright lie. Kids adapt to all sorts of things they don’t actually like. To be clear, I also did not actually attack any particular parents here. I responded to this originally: “Even when doing it "right," these rapid at-home tests instill horror, social and mental problems, and all sorts of insane power hierarchies that confuse young, growing minds.” This is incorrect, but regardless it doesn’t even say that he has kids. My statement (“You’re the one causing the problems”) was a rhetorical device to answer the general claim that kids are being traumatized, not a literal accusation of blame.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  > (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) Just to say, out of an urge to find some common ground: I was a "picky eater" -- initially whimsically and then ultimately rather more seriously, until early adulthood (though never to feeding tube territory, I was definitely underweight). My parents would want me to tell you that it almost certainly isn't your fault. And I can tell you from thinking it through that it was never really about foods I did or did not like. It was always about disgust, and deep-seated, too. As I've said before in comments, it's actually a diagnosable eating disorder (ARFID) even at the fussy/faddy stage, and can become problematic even when it initially manifests as quite a mild or simply defiant thing. To keep it on topic, here's where you might find yourself at odds with your own position further up the thread: if they do have any psychological basis for why they are picky, then you trying to make them do better through assertive parenting is more or less guaranteed to make it worse. Most of your parental instincts will be at odds with the outcome you desire. I could tell you what worked for me if it would help.
  - dpark 5y ago
    My kids were both excellent eaters until we began to indulge their pickiness too much. For both of them we chose “eat more of the stuff you like” over “eat more variety” because we were more concerned with weight gain (as in our kids are both at the bottom end of the weight charts). I’m pretty sure that we created much of the problem. Most kids go through some picky phases but parents can definitely magnify them. And sure, there are kids who are perhaps picky to the point of disorder. I don’t think that’s my kids.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      "Eat more of the stuff you like" is definitely strategy zero -- it will keep even the pickiest kids alive with less intervention. It's also why parents get called bad parents who when their ARFID kids will only eat two kinds of potato chips and one kind of cheese. Strategy one: baseline foods and well-liked gravies/sauces. Do they eat rice? If so, Asian food is an amazing way to extend taste and texture tolerance, because special fried rices (like Nasi Goreng etc.) allow you to experiment with the amount of a thing you can bear at any one time, and also to add small amounts of other dishes to the safe rice as they want to. Strategy two: comparable foods. Choose a restaurant not always because it has the thing they like, but sometimes because it has a different kind of meal that is extremely similar. Again, Asian food is amazing for this -- chicken katsu curry, if I'd known that was a thing when I was nine... Strategy three: outsourcing. Your kids friends' parents are likely to get them to eat things you cannot. Because eating the thing at home, disappointing you by not being able to eat it, etc., is different. Strategy four: participation. Cook the thing they'll eat but ask them to them stir it/help prepare it/be responsible for it. Strategy five: cookery. Get them to choose a thing from a recipe book and be involved with it to the point that they are doing all the non-dangerous bits themselves quite young. Strategy six: send them off to uni/college. I came back from uni in my second term largely cured, though I was never able to (and I am still unable to) eat breakfast with anyone else.

dpark 5y ago

I don’t think kids generally see the tests as particularly gross. (They like to put their fingers up there, remember?) And certainly not unusual, not now at least. Maybe intrusive, but kids put up with far more intrusive stuff all the time. I brush my kids’ teeth for them. That is way more intrusive than a nasal swab. It also takes way longer. Kids are quite adept at accepting things if the parents are consistent and reasonable. I see lots of little kids wearing masks whenever they’re in public because their parents and caregivers expect it. I see other kids who don’t and some of their parents explain to me all about how their kids “can’t” (with no hint of why they can’t). No surprise. If you don’t expect something, you’ll find your kids don’t do it. (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) And yeah, some kids are special needs in some way. But most are not. I’ve also had parents tell me that the only way they can get their kids to ever calm down is to put them in front of the TV. Sure. That’s definitely your kid and not your fault. > I am not feigning outrage. I'm suggesting to you that you're being overbroad with your assertions in this context. I‘ve been pretty clear that I agree some kids have special needs and should get special accommodations. My point was that in general kids are totally fine with being swabbed for tests. (At least in the US. Sounds like your UK kits maybe suck.) Claiming that in general kids are being traumatized by being swabbed is an outright lie. Kids adapt to all sorts of things they don’t actually like. To be clear, I also did not actually attack any particular parents here. I responded to this originally: “Even when doing it "right," these rapid at-home tests instill horror, social and mental problems, and all sorts of insane power hierarchies that confuse young, growing minds.” This is incorrect, but regardless it doesn’t even say that he has kids. My statement (“You’re the one causing the problems”) was a rhetorical device to answer the general claim that kids are being traumatized, not a literal accusation of blame.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) Just to say, out of an urge to find some common ground: I was a "picky eater" -- initially whimsically and then ultimately rather more seriously, until early adulthood (though never to feeding tube territory, I was definitely underweight). My parents would want me to tell you that it almost certainly isn't your fault. And I can tell you from thinking it through that it was never really about foods I did or did not like. It was always about disgust, and deep-seated, too. As I've said before in comments, it's actually a diagnosable eating disorder (ARFID) even at the fussy/faddy stage, and can become problematic even when it initially manifests as quite a mild or simply defiant thing. To keep it on topic, here's where you might find yourself at odds with your own position further up the thread: if they do have any psychological basis for why they are picky, then you trying to make them do better through assertive parenting is more or less guaranteed to make it worse. Most of your parental instincts will be at odds with the outcome you desire. I could tell you what worked for me if it would help.
- dpark 5y ago
  My kids were both excellent eaters until we began to indulge their pickiness too much. For both of them we chose “eat more of the stuff you like” over “eat more variety” because we were more concerned with weight gain (as in our kids are both at the bottom end of the weight charts). I’m pretty sure that we created much of the problem. Most kids go through some picky phases but parents can definitely magnify them. And sure, there are kids who are perhaps picky to the point of disorder. I don’t think that’s my kids.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    "Eat more of the stuff you like" is definitely strategy zero -- it will keep even the pickiest kids alive with less intervention. It's also why parents get called bad parents who when their ARFID kids will only eat two kinds of potato chips and one kind of cheese. Strategy one: baseline foods and well-liked gravies/sauces. Do they eat rice? If so, Asian food is an amazing way to extend taste and texture tolerance, because special fried rices (like Nasi Goreng etc.) allow you to experiment with the amount of a thing you can bear at any one time, and also to add small amounts of other dishes to the safe rice as they want to. Strategy two: comparable foods. Choose a restaurant not always because it has the thing they like, but sometimes because it has a different kind of meal that is extremely similar. Again, Asian food is amazing for this -- chicken katsu curry, if I'd known that was a thing when I was nine... Strategy three: outsourcing. Your kids friends' parents are likely to get them to eat things you cannot. Because eating the thing at home, disappointing you by not being able to eat it, etc., is different. Strategy four: participation. Cook the thing they'll eat but ask them to them stir it/help prepare it/be responsible for it. Strategy five: cookery. Get them to choose a thing from a recipe book and be involved with it to the point that they are doing all the non-dangerous bits themselves quite young. Strategy six: send them off to uni/college. I came back from uni in my second term largely cured, though I was never able to (and I am still unable to) eat breakfast with anyone else.