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> No, it's not, because you're talking about an unusual and gross medical test. A literal, very personal intrusion, poking something far up where kids are told
by dpark 5y ago
> No, it's not, because you're talking about an unusual and gross medical test. A literal, very personal intrusion, poking something far up where kids are told not to poke things. Not walking upstairs.
You went from claiming you’re “pro-testing” to claiming that the test is “unusual”, “gross”, and “intrusive”. Also suddenly your concern for kids with sensitivity disorders is nowhere to be found and you’re speaking in general terms again.
This is exactly why I said the argument about special needs kids is dishonest. Because the argument isn’t about them. It’s about kids in general but you want to feign outrage on behalf of a population because it’s conveniently emotional.
Anti maskers do the same and is interesting to see people with legitimate respiratory diseases and parents of actual disabled children plea for people to put their masks on to protect that exact population. It’s utterly gross to invoke a disadvantaged population dishonestly.
> Most test kits don't require it; it's still the best way to get an accurate result, though
You’re really trying to blame others for the fact that some parents might choose to do a throat swab when they are not obligated to? That’s literally on the parents for making that choice.
> But it's intellectually honest to generalise saying "if your kids experience trauma, you caused it"?
Yeah. If your kid doesn’t have some special need or sensitivity and getting a nasal swab is that traumatic for them, that sounds like you’re doing it wrong. Maybe you’re being too rough with the swab. Maybe you’re screaming at them because they won’t sit still. I don’t know. But I’ve seen dozens of kids line up for swabs and be just fine. When there’s a problem with a kid, it’s generally appropriate to look to the parents first. Child psychologists say this consistently. The problem is virtually always the parents.
Also “intellectually dishonest” doesn’t mean “incorrect” or “asshole”. Maybe I’m both of those things. But I’m not intellectually dishonest for calling out bullshit.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago> You went from claiming you’re “pro-testing” to claiming that the test is “unusual”, “gross”, and “intrusive”. I am pro testing. Are you suggesting that they are mutually exclusive ideas? (Plus, that was meant to be from the kid's perspective, hence the bit about sticking things where they are told not to be sticking things; that might not have come across well, admittedly.) I am not feigning outrage. I'm suggesting to you that you're being overbroad with your assertions in this context. > virtually always Sums it up.
- dpark 5y agoI don’t think kids generally see the tests as particularly gross. (They like to put their fingers up there, remember?) And certainly not unusual, not now at least. Maybe intrusive, but kids put up with far more intrusive stuff all the time. I brush my kids’ teeth for them. That is way more intrusive than a nasal swab. It also takes way longer. Kids are quite adept at accepting things if the parents are consistent and reasonable. I see lots of little kids wearing masks whenever they’re in public because their parents and caregivers expect it. I see other kids who don’t and some of their parents explain to me all about how their kids “can’t” (with no hint of why they can’t). No surprise. If you don’t expect something, you’ll find your kids don’t do it. (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) And yeah, some kids are special needs in some way. But most are not. I’ve also had parents tell me that the only way they can get their kids to ever calm down is to put them in front of the TV. Sure. That’s definitely your kid and not your fault. > I am not feigning outrage. I'm suggesting to you that you're being overbroad with your assertions in this context. I‘ve been pretty clear that I agree some kids have special needs and should get special accommodations. My point was that in general kids are totally fine with being swabbed for tests. (At least in the US. Sounds like your UK kits maybe suck.) Claiming that in general kids are being traumatized by being swabbed is an outright lie. Kids adapt to all sorts of things they don’t actually like. To be clear, I also did not actually attack any particular parents here. I responded to this originally: “Even when doing it "right," these rapid at-home tests instill horror, social and mental problems, and all sorts of insane power hierarchies that confuse young, growing minds.” This is incorrect, but regardless it doesn’t even say that he has kids. My statement (“You’re the one causing the problems”) was a rhetorical device to answer the general claim that kids are being traumatized, not a literal accusation of blame.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago> (My kids are ridiculously picky eaters. I’m willing to accept that this is my fault.) Just to say, out of an urge to find some common ground: I was a "picky eater" -- initially whimsically and then ultimately rather more seriously, until early adulthood (though never to feeding tube territory, I was definitely underweight). My parents would want me to tell you that it almost certainly isn't your fault. And I can tell you from thinking it through that it was never really about foods I did or did not like. It was always about disgust, and deep-seated, too. As I've said before in comments, it's actually a diagnosable eating disorder (ARFID) even at the fussy/faddy stage, and can become problematic even when it initially manifests as quite a mild or simply defiant thing. To keep it on topic, here's where you might find yourself at odds with your own position further up the thread: if they do have any psychological basis for why they are picky, then you trying to make them do better through assertive parenting is more or less guaranteed to make it worse. Most of your parental instincts will be at odds with the outcome you desire. I could tell you what worked for me if it would help.