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>he thinks of Ukrainians as the same people as Russians, not as inferiors and definitely not as Hitler thought of Jews, for fuck sake. definitely you aren't fr

by trhway 5y ago

>he thinks of Ukrainians as the same people as Russians, not as inferiors and definitely not as Hitler thought of Jews, for fuck sake. definitely you aren't from Russian nor Ukrainian culture, and thus can't really "appreciate" the 2 last speeches of Putin where he took whatever gloves were still on. His approach here is more like Hitler's to Slavic than Jews - ie. some share of population will still be allowed biological existence while stripped of cultural identity and denied any self-governance. >He seems to take issue with Ukraine's existence as a separate country, not just simply with its pure existence! he denies existence of Ukrainians as a separate ethnicity, in his proclaimed view Ukrainians are just a version of Russians not capable of governing themselves, etc. while you can see his deep hate to the Ukrainians. >they've only used around 75 aircraft out of thousands that they have at their disposal thousands? you're really no aware what is going on. Russia has pretty small number of actually flying combat ready aircraft, and those 75 is all what they could use without leaving the rest of the country completely naked. >whatever it is Putin wants, there has been zero evidence he's looking to eliminate the Ukrainian people you can't listen to his speeches, so you are trying to get the best interpretation possible. Unfortunately Putin isn't going for such an interpretation. In a few days there have already been 1M people who left Ukraine, and will be many more. The resisting will die - he was clear about that, you can find the transcript. And whoever left in depopulated country will be converted to "Russian", and there will be no more Ukrainians there. Forcing people out, and killing or converting the rest, all that on the base of ethnicity - that is textbook ethnical cleansing and genocide.

brabel 5y ago
> definitely you aren't from Russian nor Ukrainian culture Listen, I have Ukrainian/Belarussian family, pls address my arguments and avoid personal attacks like that. > he denies existence of Ukrainians as a separate ethnicity, in his proclaimed view Ukrainians are just a version of Russians not capable of governing themselves That's like saying the USA denies the existence of Texas because it sees Texans as Americans (noticing that Texas was annexed from Mexico not a very long time ago, in case you don't know it). It's ridiculous. I don't agree that Ukraine should be annexed by Russia, that's not what I am saying - what I am saying is that Putin appears to consider Ukrainians as Russians and that's why he wants to, if not annex Ukraine, keep it under Russian's sphere of influence. > thousands? you're really no aware what is going on. Yes, according to all data I've seen, e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-military-comparison-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil... Maybe you have "insider" information we don't?! > The resisting will die - he was clear about that What do you expect in a war? The resisting to be assisted?!? Does that make any sense to you? > Forcing people out, and killing or converting the rest, all that on the base of ethnicity - that is textbook ethnical cleansing and genocide. It sucks people have to flee to be safe, but this is not happening for the reasons you think it is. It's happening because Ukraine has only one choice on a fight with Russia: to use urban warfare (people have been calling it protracted war) because in open combat, the Ukrainian military would've been destroyed much more easily - which means that they know their only defense is to mix with civilians and they know well what's going to happen. Do you deny the Ukrainian military is hiding in the cities, which is why Russia is attacking the cities? Or you believe that even if Ukrainian forces came out on the field and stayed out of cities, Ukrainian cities would still be bombarded anyway? If you could prove the latter, I would believe you that there's some evil ethnical genocide going on, but fortunately, the only cities being attacked so far appear to be the cities where Ukrainian military is intentionally bringing the fighting to (I am sure they don't like to do that either, but they made a choice and will have to live with that choice).
- trhway 5y ago
  >Listen, I have Ukrainian/Belarussian family, pls address my arguments and avoid personal attacks like that. it wasn't a personal attack. It is just a statement of an obvious and important fact wrt. your obviously low level of awareness. And i was right - you have family from that context yet you aren't from that context yourself. >Yes, according to all data I've seen, e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil... >Maybe you have "insider" information we don't?! it is well known to everybody - 1300 total aircraft out of which only half at best is capable of flying, usually even less than that. So taking 75 to Ukraine already really hits Russian defense capability elsewhere. >It sucks people have to flee to be safe, but this is not happening for the reasons you think it is. It's happening because Ukraine has only one choice on a fight with Russia: to use urban warfare (people have been calling it protracted war) it is a very low morale propaganda statement of victim blaming, right from German Nazi playbook. >because in open combat, the Ukrainian military would've been destroyed much more easily The frontal combat like in Hostomel airport shows that Ukrainian military is fully capable of strong wins over Russian forces in key strategic battles. > which means that they know their only defense is to mix with civilians and they know well what's going to happen. you're using the main point of Russian propaganda - "human shield", "nazis hiding behind regular people". And that is lie. And extremely disgusting morale position - "You're making me to kill your civilians". Again German Nazi come to mind as they practiced that a lot. I hope you just aren't aware, and not spreading those lies intentionally. You can see the videos on YouTube and Telegram - one of the main tactic by Ukrainian forces right now is to attack the convoys. It is obvious tactic at that stage. If Ukrainian forces were hiding behind civilians the Russian propaganda would have a lot of videos for that. They don't. >Do you deny the Ukrainian military is hiding in the cities, which is why Russia is attacking the cities? I definitely deny that. Russia is attacking the cities to take them. And Ukrainians, regular civil Ukrainians including, are fighting back throwing Molotovs and shooting RPG at Russian armor and hunting down Russian soldiers. >Or you believe that even if Ukrainian forces came out on the field and stayed out of cities, Ukrainian cities would still be bombarded anyway? this is what happening. Just watch those Harkiv bombing videos or any other Ukrainian city bombing. >the only cities being attacked so far appear to be the cities where Ukrainian military is intentionally bringing the fighting to (I am sure they don't like to do that either, but they made a choice and will have to live with that choice). that is clear Russian propaganda and blackmail - stop defending your cities or your people will die. "They made a choice" - how can you even write that, as that is again straight out of German Nazi playbook. Ukrainians definitely didn't bring the fight to Kiev, nor to any other of their cities. It were Russian airstrikes and tanks which brought the fight there. Honestly, man, it is unbelievable that any reasonable man, like i'd suppose you're would bring in so much clear Russian propaganda which is right out of Nazi playbook.

by trhway 5y ago

brabel 5y ago

> definitely you aren't from Russian nor Ukrainian culture Listen, I have Ukrainian/Belarussian family, pls address my arguments and avoid personal attacks like that. > he denies existence of Ukrainians as a separate ethnicity, in his proclaimed view Ukrainians are just a version of Russians not capable of governing themselves That's like saying the USA denies the existence of Texas because it sees Texans as Americans (noticing that Texas was annexed from Mexico not a very long time ago, in case you don't know it). It's ridiculous. I don't agree that Ukraine should be annexed by Russia, that's not what I am saying - what I am saying is that Putin appears to consider Ukrainians as Russians and that's why he wants to, if not annex Ukraine, keep it under Russian's sphere of influence. > thousands? you're really no aware what is going on. Yes, according to all data I've seen, e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-military-comparison-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil... Maybe you have "insider" information we don't?! > The resisting will die - he was clear about that What do you expect in a war? The resisting to be assisted?!? Does that make any sense to you? > Forcing people out, and killing or converting the rest, all that on the base of ethnicity - that is textbook ethnical cleansing and genocide. It sucks people have to flee to be safe, but this is not happening for the reasons you think it is. It's happening because Ukraine has only one choice on a fight with Russia: to use urban warfare (people have been calling it protracted war) because in open combat, the Ukrainian military would've been destroyed much more easily - which means that they know their only defense is to mix with civilians and they know well what's going to happen. Do you deny the Ukrainian military is hiding in the cities, which is why Russia is attacking the cities? Or you believe that even if Ukrainian forces came out on the field and stayed out of cities, Ukrainian cities would still be bombarded anyway? If you could prove the latter, I would believe you that there's some evil ethnical genocide going on, but fortunately, the only cities being attacked so far appear to be the cities where Ukrainian military is intentionally bringing the fighting to (I am sure they don't like to do that either, but they made a choice and will have to live with that choice).

trhway 5y ago
>Listen, I have Ukrainian/Belarussian family, pls address my arguments and avoid personal attacks like that. it wasn't a personal attack. It is just a statement of an obvious and important fact wrt. your obviously low level of awareness. And i was right - you have family from that context yet you aren't from that context yourself. >Yes, according to all data I've seen, e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-mil... >Maybe you have "insider" information we don't?! it is well known to everybody - 1300 total aircraft out of which only half at best is capable of flying, usually even less than that. So taking 75 to Ukraine already really hits Russian defense capability elsewhere. >It sucks people have to flee to be safe, but this is not happening for the reasons you think it is. It's happening because Ukraine has only one choice on a fight with Russia: to use urban warfare (people have been calling it protracted war) it is a very low morale propaganda statement of victim blaming, right from German Nazi playbook. >because in open combat, the Ukrainian military would've been destroyed much more easily The frontal combat like in Hostomel airport shows that Ukrainian military is fully capable of strong wins over Russian forces in key strategic battles. > which means that they know their only defense is to mix with civilians and they know well what's going to happen. you're using the main point of Russian propaganda - "human shield", "nazis hiding behind regular people". And that is lie. And extremely disgusting morale position - "You're making me to kill your civilians". Again German Nazi come to mind as they practiced that a lot. I hope you just aren't aware, and not spreading those lies intentionally. You can see the videos on YouTube and Telegram - one of the main tactic by Ukrainian forces right now is to attack the convoys. It is obvious tactic at that stage. If Ukrainian forces were hiding behind civilians the Russian propaganda would have a lot of videos for that. They don't. >Do you deny the Ukrainian military is hiding in the cities, which is why Russia is attacking the cities? I definitely deny that. Russia is attacking the cities to take them. And Ukrainians, regular civil Ukrainians including, are fighting back throwing Molotovs and shooting RPG at Russian armor and hunting down Russian soldiers. >Or you believe that even if Ukrainian forces came out on the field and stayed out of cities, Ukrainian cities would still be bombarded anyway? this is what happening. Just watch those Harkiv bombing videos or any other Ukrainian city bombing. >the only cities being attacked so far appear to be the cities where Ukrainian military is intentionally bringing the fighting to (I am sure they don't like to do that either, but they made a choice and will have to live with that choice). that is clear Russian propaganda and blackmail - stop defending your cities or your people will die. "They made a choice" - how can you even write that, as that is again straight out of German Nazi playbook. Ukrainians definitely didn't bring the fight to Kiev, nor to any other of their cities. It were Russian airstrikes and tanks which brought the fight there. Honestly, man, it is unbelievable that any reasonable man, like i'd suppose you're would bring in so much clear Russian propaganda which is right out of Nazi playbook.