5 ms·

As much as the West operates in an environment of a free and open media, there aren't a lot of "dissenting" views being carried in any mainstream media. This ha

by qqtt 5y ago

As much as the West operates in an environment of a free and open media, there aren't a lot of "dissenting" views being carried in any mainstream media. This has partially led to another dangerous situation for democracy, where trust of the media has eroded because large swaths of viewpoints aren't being carried, and people turn to "non-traditional" sources to get counterpoints. This gives rise to the bubbles we see forming on social media - conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers (which has become a ridiculously large brush these days, including even people who have reservations about brand new vaccines), battle lines can be drawn among almost any dimension. Not to say what Russia is doing is comparable - the country has no concept of free press and dissent simply isn't possible, you will be jailed for 15 years if lucky (poison is also possible). Only to say, that no country has really figured out how to have a healthy democracy in the internet age of eroding media influence and the rise of social circles which can espouse almost any viewpoint to a large audience. January 6 is a precursor to what can happen if we don't figure this out.

netsharc 5y ago
Isn't Fox News very mainstream, and very... "dissenting"? Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, Fox News gives them the mic, and even primetime slots! Or am I just another "commie lib"? January 6? Fox News hosted people who championed the "2020 election theft" theory: https://www.vox.com/recode/21563312/fox-news-trump-election-fraud-murdoch-hannity-carlson-ingraham https://www.vox.com/recode/21563312/fox-news-trump-election-... I guess the big issue is, the media used to be truthful, nowadays they make assertions and claim it's the truth. The "leftist" media was parroting the "Covid was not from a lab" assertion as if they're sure of it, in science you don't dismiss theories unless you're 100% certain - although if someone said "Elvis came back from his space trip and brought Covid from planet X", it doesn't seem worthy to waste one's time to investigate this assertation. It'd be great if people who listened to Fox News could be asked to listen to someone who challenges their assertions, like "Biden won Georgia by about 12000 votes. If all those 12000 votes were fraudulent, wouldn't you think there'd be more evidence about widespread cheating?". Sadly a lot of people probably don't even want their minds to be changed, they're already certain that the other side are the spawn of Satan and that their side is the right one.
- yesco 5y ago
  I've discovered over the years that when someone starts spouting random complaints about Fox News brainwashing, it's an easy "tell" that they are probably an out of touch liberal "elite" with an ego that probably needs some deflating (at least when it comes to politics). I say this as someone who fit this description to a tee in the past. Its amazing how when I starting taking my own medicine and actually began speaking directly with the people I disagreed with I found what they believed in was very different than what the talking heads told me they were. More often than not, they knew my position better than me, and yet I knew hardly anything about theirs, it's embarrassing in retrospect. Speaking as someone with now very in the middle political leanings, I don't see Fox News as any different than any other mainstream outlet who is a member of the Associated Press. They take a story off the AP conveyor belt, spin it in a way that is advantageous to their billionaire owners and add a bit of spice to keep the lemmings listening.
  - netsharc 5y ago
    Ah, the both-sides-ism. > I found what they believed in was very different than what the talking heads told me they were. Lucky you, to have encountered that particular niche, and I guess it's telling when they knew more than you. But what percentage of Fox News watchers take what their talking heads are saying as truth, and what percentage as "spin"? Even Fox News pundits and guests are now being fact-checked by a Fox News employee: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griffin-fox-news-fact-checking-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griff... . So, why is Tucker Carlson defending Putin. Just for his billionaires owners? Is it defensible? To read your comment, yes it is, because the other side spins too?
    - yesco 5y ago
      > Lucky you, to have encountered that particular niche, and I guess it's telling when they knew more than you Your condescending attitude is doing you no favors, I wasn't trying to be humble here, I was using an anecdote from my past to politely tell you that what you are saying is embarrassingly out of touch and that reasonable people in real life wont be kind enough to tell you unless you ask directly. In fact, I only even replied at all because your original comment had the audacity to say the following with zero self awareness: > Sadly a lot of people probably don't even want their minds to be changed, they're already certain that the other side are the spawn of Satan and that their side is the right one. The point I was making here is that the news they *report* is ultimately the same as every other AP member, with the difference being how they spin it. If Fox is reporting about anti-vaxxers in a positive light, then CNN is reporting on them in a negative, at the end of the day the substance of the story is the same *because it is*, if you want it unseasoned look at the AP directly, that doesn't mean it lacks bias though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press#Litigation_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press#Litigation_an.... >Ah, the both-sides-ism. Oh no, there is of course absolutely more than one side here: news organizations within the AP bubble and those outside it. Fox News is a mainstream outlet that gets more viewers than CNN, yet you still decided to turn this entire discussion about representing dissenting viewpoints in media about them, I want you to take a moment to think about that. Don't misunderstand though, this discussion was never about the politics itself, I'm not saying left-wing politics are the same as right-wing, I'm just informing you that the media's distortion of them is.

by qqtt 5y ago

netsharc 5y ago

Isn't Fox News very mainstream, and very... "dissenting"? Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, Fox News gives them the mic, and even primetime slots! Or am I just another "commie lib"? January 6? Fox News hosted people who championed the "2020 election theft" theory: https://www.vox.com/recode/21563312/fox-news-trump-election-fraud-murdoch-hannity-carlson-ingraham https://www.vox.com/recode/21563312/fox-news-trump-election-... I guess the big issue is, the media used to be truthful, nowadays they make assertions and claim it's the truth. The "leftist" media was parroting the "Covid was not from a lab" assertion as if they're sure of it, in science you don't dismiss theories unless you're 100% certain - although if someone said "Elvis came back from his space trip and brought Covid from planet X", it doesn't seem worthy to waste one's time to investigate this assertation. It'd be great if people who listened to Fox News could be asked to listen to someone who challenges their assertions, like "Biden won Georgia by about 12000 votes. If all those 12000 votes were fraudulent, wouldn't you think there'd be more evidence about widespread cheating?". Sadly a lot of people probably don't even want their minds to be changed, they're already certain that the other side are the spawn of Satan and that their side is the right one.

yesco 5y ago
I've discovered over the years that when someone starts spouting random complaints about Fox News brainwashing, it's an easy "tell" that they are probably an out of touch liberal "elite" with an ego that probably needs some deflating (at least when it comes to politics). I say this as someone who fit this description to a tee in the past. Its amazing how when I starting taking my own medicine and actually began speaking directly with the people I disagreed with I found what they believed in was very different than what the talking heads told me they were. More often than not, they knew my position better than me, and yet I knew hardly anything about theirs, it's embarrassing in retrospect. Speaking as someone with now very in the middle political leanings, I don't see Fox News as any different than any other mainstream outlet who is a member of the Associated Press. They take a story off the AP conveyor belt, spin it in a way that is advantageous to their billionaire owners and add a bit of spice to keep the lemmings listening.
- netsharc 5y ago
  Ah, the both-sides-ism. > I found what they believed in was very different than what the talking heads told me they were. Lucky you, to have encountered that particular niche, and I guess it's telling when they knew more than you. But what percentage of Fox News watchers take what their talking heads are saying as truth, and what percentage as "spin"? Even Fox News pundits and guests are now being fact-checked by a Fox News employee: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griffin-fox-news-fact-checking-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griff... . So, why is Tucker Carlson defending Putin. Just for his billionaires owners? Is it defensible? To read your comment, yes it is, because the other side spins too?
  - yesco 5y ago
    > Lucky you, to have encountered that particular niche, and I guess it's telling when they knew more than you Your condescending attitude is doing you no favors, I wasn't trying to be humble here, I was using an anecdote from my past to politely tell you that what you are saying is embarrassingly out of touch and that reasonable people in real life wont be kind enough to tell you unless you ask directly. In fact, I only even replied at all because your original comment had the audacity to say the following with zero self awareness: > Sadly a lot of people probably don't even want their minds to be changed, they're already certain that the other side are the spawn of Satan and that their side is the right one. The point I was making here is that the news they *report* is ultimately the same as every other AP member, with the difference being how they spin it. If Fox is reporting about anti-vaxxers in a positive light, then CNN is reporting on them in a negative, at the end of the day the substance of the story is the same *because it is*, if you want it unseasoned look at the AP directly, that doesn't mean it lacks bias though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press#Litigation_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press#Litigation_an.... >Ah, the both-sides-ism. Oh no, there is of course absolutely more than one side here: news organizations within the AP bubble and those outside it. Fox News is a mainstream outlet that gets more viewers than CNN, yet you still decided to turn this entire discussion about representing dissenting viewpoints in media about them, I want you to take a moment to think about that. Don't misunderstand though, this discussion was never about the politics itself, I'm not saying left-wing politics are the same as right-wing, I'm just informing you that the media's distortion of them is.