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Posts and comments like this scare me.Not being a social person, while talking to others, my worst nightmare is when I ask someone a question, and they already

Posts and comments like this scare me.Not being a social person, while talking to others, my worst nightmare is when I ask someone a question, and they already have some presumptions about why I am asking that, and I would occasionally end up being scolded and not even know why. In this case, because I asked about not being able to find the docs, I am already a hater because of the line of conversation others have had already.

rattlesnakedave 5y ago
Not at all! As I take it, the sentiment being expressed is against an individual who repeatedly, over the course of time, critiques and accuses without making an attempt to bridge the gap of understanding on their end. For instance, in the article “There are no docs for [this thing you're doing]” would be significantly better posed as a question. “Where can I find documentation for [this thing you’re doing]?” You can tell the author’s frustrations aren’t one off, from: “ Basically, with them, something's always wrong, and if you refute their points, they will pivot to find something else. This will go on for a while” and I think this is the general sentiment. Everyone takes an accusatory tone now and then, or has a bad day, or whatever, but if you’re doing it consistently and refuse to be pleased that’s when it becomes “hater behavior”
ttymck 5y ago
I did not read that same interpretation of the article. The first question was not the problem, but the sum of the incessant questions. Sure, the first question can be a good indicator for what is to follow, but I would politely suggest not letting this article stoke your confirmation bias.
pc86 5y ago
It's pretty easy to tell when someone is genuinely curious/unknowledgeable/whatever vs. when they're just hunting for something they can complain about (or something they can use to fire you, if that's the power dynamic). Another comment here brings up a waiting tables analogy which I think is really great. Asking for 3 things at once (parallel) is much different than asking for 3 things separately (serial). And truthfully, any question that shows you've actually looked for whatever you need helps 99% of the time.
RangerScience 5y ago
One large tip, one small tip: 1) Talk therapy can also just be "social interaction tutoring". 10/10 would recommend 2) "There aren't any docs" is accusatory and aggressive because it's about them / their work. "I couldn't find the docs" isn't, because it's about yourself. (Edit) "“Where can I find documentation for [this thing you’re doing]?” (thanks @ rattlesnakedave!) then goes the next step by actively inviting assistance. 2a) Tone definitely matters / helps, but that's a lot harder to coach / communicate over text.
- justin_oaks 5y ago
  I appreciate that on point 2 you add the question "Can you help?" I find it upsetting when people make a statement and you have to infer that it's a request for help. I had a boss who would often send Slack messages stating something like "[Coworker] is on vacation today" or "The release is out" or "Our sales are down today". It was always some statement with no reason for me to think that he wants me to do something. Of course, I assumed he wanted me to do something or else he wouldn't have contacted me. Then I had to dig out of him what he expected of me. For everyone reading this: If you want help, please make an explicit request and make it as specific as possible. It may interest you to scroll through your chat logs with other people to see how much you or other people do what my old boss did (i.e. make a statement and expect someone to know what you want done). I just review the logs with my current boss and was pleased to see none of my previous boss's behavior from me or him. I did, however see that kind of behavior from one of my coworkers.
  - Remnant44 5y ago
    I hadn't considered that perspective but it is brilliant. Making requests explicit rather than veiled by an invisible contract is a good practice at work and in basically any kind of human relationship. "The trash is full" vs "will you take out the trash for me?" Is a world of difference.
    - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
      Following on in a similar vein, the usage of "soft" wording can result in the same kind of misunderstanding, and this is something I'm working on improving myself. "Should", "Might", "Potentially". Just fucking say what you think instead of mincing words (my advice to myself).
adrianmonk 5y ago
It's one thing to be trying to act in a constructive manner but lack some social graces. It's another thing to be a person who expresses hostility by being unreasonable and difficult. I think this article is about the latter, not the former. Consider that a person with highly polished social skills can still be hostile and difficult. In fact, they can be worse because they can use those skills to create the illusion that they aren't doing anything wrong.
- mrexroad 5y ago
  > “expresses hostility by being unreasonable and difficult” Sadly I’ve seen well-intending ASD/Asperger’s folks be written off as hostile. It’s a tricky balance to build culture of positivity without blocking neurodivergent folks from amplifying a team with their unique gifts.
evandale 5y ago
The easiest way to not be that person is to tell people what you've done already followed by your problem. Instead of > Coworker: There are no docs for [this thing you're doing]. Say > "I looked at company.xyz/wiki/app/docs and don't see the docs for [this thing you're doing]. Can you help me find them?" I'm way more understanding if someone has given an attempt to solve their problem but failed and are now coming to me. If you come out the gate with "facts" I know aren't true like [x doesn't exist] or [y isn't working] I'm more likely to be annoyed at you.
sneak 5y ago
Asking for docs, or where the docs are, is not the same as asserting that there are no docs (which implies the author has not done their job).

rattlesnakedave 5y ago

Not at all! As I take it, the sentiment being expressed is against an individual who repeatedly, over the course of time, critiques and accuses without making an attempt to bridge the gap of understanding on their end. For instance, in the article “There are no docs for [this thing you're doing]” would be significantly better posed as a question. “Where can I find documentation for [this thing you’re doing]?” You can tell the author’s frustrations aren’t one off, from: “ Basically, with them, something's always wrong, and if you refute their points, they will pivot to find something else. This will go on for a while” and I think this is the general sentiment. Everyone takes an accusatory tone now and then, or has a bad day, or whatever, but if you’re doing it consistently and refuse to be pleased that’s when it becomes “hater behavior”

ttymck 5y ago

I did not read that same interpretation of the article. The first question was not the problem, but the sum of the incessant questions. Sure, the first question can be a good indicator for what is to follow, but I would politely suggest not letting this article stoke your confirmation bias.

pc86 5y ago

It's pretty easy to tell when someone is genuinely curious/unknowledgeable/whatever vs. when they're just hunting for something they can complain about (or something they can use to fire you, if that's the power dynamic). Another comment here brings up a waiting tables analogy which I think is really great. Asking for 3 things at once (parallel) is much different than asking for 3 things separately (serial). And truthfully, any question that shows you've actually looked for whatever you need helps 99% of the time.

RangerScience 5y ago

One large tip, one small tip: 1) Talk therapy can also just be "social interaction tutoring". 10/10 would recommend 2) "There aren't any docs" is accusatory and aggressive because it's about them / their work. "I couldn't find the docs" isn't, because it's about yourself. (Edit) "“Where can I find documentation for [this thing you’re doing]?” (thanks @ rattlesnakedave!) then goes the next step by actively inviting assistance. 2a) Tone definitely matters / helps, but that's a lot harder to coach / communicate over text.

justin_oaks 5y ago
I appreciate that on point 2 you add the question "Can you help?" I find it upsetting when people make a statement and you have to infer that it's a request for help. I had a boss who would often send Slack messages stating something like "[Coworker] is on vacation today" or "The release is out" or "Our sales are down today". It was always some statement with no reason for me to think that he wants me to do something. Of course, I assumed he wanted me to do something or else he wouldn't have contacted me. Then I had to dig out of him what he expected of me. For everyone reading this: If you want help, please make an explicit request and make it as specific as possible. It may interest you to scroll through your chat logs with other people to see how much you or other people do what my old boss did (i.e. make a statement and expect someone to know what you want done). I just review the logs with my current boss and was pleased to see none of my previous boss's behavior from me or him. I did, however see that kind of behavior from one of my coworkers.
- Remnant44 5y ago
  I hadn't considered that perspective but it is brilliant. Making requests explicit rather than veiled by an invisible contract is a good practice at work and in basically any kind of human relationship. "The trash is full" vs "will you take out the trash for me?" Is a world of difference.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Following on in a similar vein, the usage of "soft" wording can result in the same kind of misunderstanding, and this is something I'm working on improving myself. "Should", "Might", "Potentially". Just fucking say what you think instead of mincing words (my advice to myself).

adrianmonk 5y ago

It's one thing to be trying to act in a constructive manner but lack some social graces. It's another thing to be a person who expresses hostility by being unreasonable and difficult. I think this article is about the latter, not the former. Consider that a person with highly polished social skills can still be hostile and difficult. In fact, they can be worse because they can use those skills to create the illusion that they aren't doing anything wrong.

mrexroad 5y ago
> “expresses hostility by being unreasonable and difficult” Sadly I’ve seen well-intending ASD/Asperger’s folks be written off as hostile. It’s a tricky balance to build culture of positivity without blocking neurodivergent folks from amplifying a team with their unique gifts.

evandale 5y ago

The easiest way to not be that person is to tell people what you've done already followed by your problem. Instead of > Coworker: There are no docs for [this thing you're doing]. Say > "I looked at company.xyz/wiki/app/docs and don't see the docs for [this thing you're doing]. Can you help me find them?" I'm way more understanding if someone has given an attempt to solve their problem but failed and are now coming to me. If you come out the gate with "facts" I know aren't true like [x doesn't exist] or [y isn't working] I'm more likely to be annoyed at you.

sneak 5y ago

Asking for docs, or where the docs are, is not the same as asserting that there are no docs (which implies the author has not done their job).