4 ms·

Previously there were reports that the Russians forced the ship to cover them as "human shield": https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699109 https://www.

by okl 5y ago

Previously there were reports that the Russians forced the ship to cover them as "human shield": https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699109 https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699109

whimsicalism 5y ago
Reports by the Ukrainian military. TBH, many of the direct reports put out by the Ukrainian military have later been retracted. For instance, Ukrainian military claimed that tank that drove over civilian car in Kyiv was Russian, but it was Ukrainian.
- allisdust 5y ago
  Wait how did that happen. Was it a mistake on the tank crew's part?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    The tank was maneuvering at high speed because it was engaged in a firefight and briefly lost control. Nobody was seriously injured.
  - adolph 5y ago
    IIRC it looked like a BMP backing up into a roadway. If it was buttoned up then at best the vehicle commander might have a glimpse of a car. The driver never saw it, just felt a shift in vehicle level. If it was Ukrainian I don't see an excuse to fail to have a ground guide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_development
- zatertip 5y ago
  Source?
  - okl 5y ago
    From what I've read the Russians said that they didn't use this type of vehicle in that location and it didn't carry their markings. But see my other comment to parent.
- okl 5y ago
  > For instance, Ukrainian military claimed that tank that drove over civilian car in Kyiv was Russian, but it was Ukrainian. IIRC, they claimed that it was an Ukrainian Strela-10 that was captured by an illegal combatant. Regardless, I just wanted to point at that piece of information without claiming that it was true.
waffleiron 5y ago
I am not sure how much I would trust the Ukraine military on matters that make Russia look bad. However it's last port call was Chornomorsk/Odessa at 20 Feb, and it doesn't seem like the best time to leave. So I assume they left for a reason. Odessa seems to be still under Ukrainian control, but there have been reports that it would be Russia's next target, so it's possible it was trying to avoid the invasion. I also would be careful with AIS data right now, it's easy to spoof and has been done so very recently in the black sea (https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/hackers-deface-ais-data-of-putin-s-personal-yacht https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/hackers-deface-ai...)
- okl 5y ago
  In the same vein it's possible that the Russians decided that they don't want that ship to possibly resupply the Ukrainians and therefore decided to shoot it. We won't know for sure until the dust settles.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    The ship (supposedly) entered a Ukrainian port on the 20th of February. So any resupplying would have been done already. It's possible that they expected Ukraine to use it to smuggle something out of the country, but I find it hard to imagine what that could be.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      Occam's razor they struck a mine

by okl 5y ago

Previously there were reports that the Russians forced the ship to cover them as "human shield": https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699109 https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699109

whimsicalism 5y ago

Reports by the Ukrainian military. TBH, many of the direct reports put out by the Ukrainian military have later been retracted. For instance, Ukrainian military claimed that tank that drove over civilian car in Kyiv was Russian, but it was Ukrainian.

allisdust 5y ago
Wait how did that happen. Was it a mistake on the tank crew's part?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  The tank was maneuvering at high speed because it was engaged in a firefight and briefly lost control. Nobody was seriously injured.
- adolph 5y ago
  IIRC it looked like a BMP backing up into a roadway. If it was buttoned up then at best the vehicle commander might have a glimpse of a car. The driver never saw it, just felt a shift in vehicle level. If it was Ukrainian I don't see an excuse to fail to have a ground guide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_development
zatertip 5y ago
Source?
- okl 5y ago
  From what I've read the Russians said that they didn't use this type of vehicle in that location and it didn't carry their markings. But see my other comment to parent.
okl 5y ago
> For instance, Ukrainian military claimed that tank that drove over civilian car in Kyiv was Russian, but it was Ukrainian. IIRC, they claimed that it was an Ukrainian Strela-10 that was captured by an illegal combatant. Regardless, I just wanted to point at that piece of information without claiming that it was true.

waffleiron 5y ago

I am not sure how much I would trust the Ukraine military on matters that make Russia look bad. However it's last port call was Chornomorsk/Odessa at 20 Feb, and it doesn't seem like the best time to leave. So I assume they left for a reason. Odessa seems to be still under Ukrainian control, but there have been reports that it would be Russia's next target, so it's possible it was trying to avoid the invasion. I also would be careful with AIS data right now, it's easy to spoof and has been done so very recently in the black sea (https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/hackers-deface-ais-data-of-putin-s-personal-yacht https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/hackers-deface-ai...)

okl 5y ago
In the same vein it's possible that the Russians decided that they don't want that ship to possibly resupply the Ukrainians and therefore decided to shoot it. We won't know for sure until the dust settles.
- waffleiron 5y ago
  The ship (supposedly) entered a Ukrainian port on the 20th of February. So any resupplying would have been done already. It's possible that they expected Ukraine to use it to smuggle something out of the country, but I find it hard to imagine what that could be.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Occam's razor they struck a mine