7 ms·

>But I figure this is the price that I pay for not using Gmail or Outlook That's one way of looking at it. Over the years that price has risen and it's getting

>But I figure this is the price that I pay for not using Gmail or Outlook That's one way of looking at it. Over the years that price has risen and it's getting to the point where I'm not sure if I want to pay it anymore. Is being paranoid about my flight boarding pass being cancelled over my damn email address worth the privacy? Is being paranoid over whether an important email I've sent has actually reached someone and not hit a provider-level filter worth the privacy? I'm not sure anymore.

mbg721 5y ago
Moreover, have we decided that the concept of a "boarding pass" is acceptable?? You used to just show up, pay, and ride.
- pc86 5y ago
  Yes, we have, as long as your definition of "we" includes "society" or "people who aren't Sovereign Citizens." I don't know anyone who thinks an airline boarding pass is "unacceptable."
  - mbg721 5y ago
    I know a lot of people who kind of put up with it because "I guess that's how it has to be." That sort of compromise is pretty fragile in the longer term.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      We were lobsters in a pot. Watching the relationship that we used to have with air travel and airports in movies from the 90s and before must be surrealistic to young people.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      You must be in a pretty restrictive bubble if you believe the "compromise" needed to accept the boarding pass system creates a fragile situation. If you were talking about the security theater around travel, as well as garbage like secret no-fly lists, I'd agree with you. But requiring a boarding pass to get on a plane is no more ridiculous to a near-total majority of humans than requiring a ticket to watch a movie at a theater.
      - mbg721 5y ago
        Does Ridley Scott get a list of the names of people who watch his films?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        fredoliveira 5y ago
        I'm not sure how you equate watching a movie (which many would consider a relatively safe activity) to riding a plane with hundreds of other people (which some might consider not necessarily risky, but riskier). But sure, I guess I'll say "no, he doesn't". Now what?
- rtkwe 5y ago
  You always received some form of printed boarding pass... It's not exactly a new concept in air travel.
  - mbg721 5y ago
    The difference is how intricately tied it is to personal identity. It's the difference between cash and a card.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Yes, I can't possibly imagine why it might be important to verify the identity of people getting on an airplane.
      - mbg721 5y ago
        I get the sarcasm, but...why does it have to be that way? For decades, high-school kids kept their rifles in the trunk, and fewer students got shot than now.
        evilDagmar 5y ago
        At our high school most of the pickup trucks had gun racks. It wasn't until like, my sophomore year of high school before anyone even considered "Hey... those shouldn't be on school grounds". We all knew quite well "no guns allowed in the school", but rifles were about as common as umbrellas and considered equally notable. One day a nice officer noticed there were like five trucks with rifles visible in the back window, and went to the office to ask the students be advised _they might be stolen_. Halfway through that conversation it dawned on them that they were in fact guns, and then an announcement was made on the PA reminding students that they were actully still guns and were very banned in school so people should take them home after school and not bring them back. ONE student forgot the next day (who was a "bad" kid but not actually a bad guy) and was allowed to apologize to the school for his forgetfulness over the PA to make amends. (I shared a class with him when he got called to the office, so I know he was embarrassed to have forgotten. It was bad for his carefully cultivated "bad boy" reputation to get caught out doing something this trivial.) The difference between then and now is that since people were always interacting in person there was less tendency for people to become psychopath basement trolls who would willfully bully someone to the breaking point and beyond.
- kelnos 5y ago
  You can still do that (boarding pass has nothing to do with that process), but given that most people book in advance, you'll run the risk of there not being room on the flight you want, or of getting a crappy seat, or of having to pay significantly more than if you booked in advance.
- jdporter 5y ago
  Show up, pay, and ride? Like getting on the subway? Not workable, for two reasons: 1, from the passengers' perspective, you need to get to Indianapolis, and when you show up, there are no seats, or worse, no flights. 2, from the airlines' perspective, no one buys advance tickets, you have no idea how big of a plane (and thus also how much fuel and how many support staff) you'll need, nor when, nor even whether you'll need a plane at all. Planning. Airplanes aren't subways.
nahkoots 5y ago
For me it'll be "yes". If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. If someone keeps missing important emails because their provider's spam checker isn't very good, that's not my problem. Although I have to say that I don't run into these situations very frequently, and I use a basic postfix/dovecot setup on a VPS for my mail.
- leephillips 5y ago
  Same situation and attitude on my part. It doesn’t happen often, but when someone is not getting my email (usually hotmail or some other garbage provider) I tell them to complain to their email provider or get a new one. My mail is going out, my server logs show everything is OK, and I will not jump through hoops to prove that I am not a spammer (I already jumped through the DKIM, etc. hoops).
- aspyct 5y ago
  On the other hand, if you lose a sale because of lost emails, that's annoying...
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  > If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. Sure but now you can't get home. I travel a ton, and this would be a major issue for me. You can't always just get on a different plane. Lucky you i guess, but airlines are one of those things that most people can't mess with.
- c7DJTLrn 5y ago
  >If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. Trust me, they don't care, I say this from experience. They don't seem to even have insight into these bans or the volume they're happening in. I had to spam Amazon support on and off for two years to get my account unlocked. And we all know how much Amazon cares about the customer... pah. Standing your ground as a customer doesn't do anything but make life a misery.
- 5y ago
AshamedCaptain 5y ago
There are a lot of intermediate options and smaller (& older) ISPs other than ProtonMail or Gmail. For some reason it's very tempting to go to the big names.

mbg721 5y ago

Moreover, have we decided that the concept of a "boarding pass" is acceptable?? You used to just show up, pay, and ride.

pc86 5y ago
Yes, we have, as long as your definition of "we" includes "society" or "people who aren't Sovereign Citizens." I don't know anyone who thinks an airline boarding pass is "unacceptable."
- mbg721 5y ago
  I know a lot of people who kind of put up with it because "I guess that's how it has to be." That sort of compromise is pretty fragile in the longer term.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    We were lobsters in a pot. Watching the relationship that we used to have with air travel and airports in movies from the 90s and before must be surrealistic to young people.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    You must be in a pretty restrictive bubble if you believe the "compromise" needed to accept the boarding pass system creates a fragile situation. If you were talking about the security theater around travel, as well as garbage like secret no-fly lists, I'd agree with you. But requiring a boarding pass to get on a plane is no more ridiculous to a near-total majority of humans than requiring a ticket to watch a movie at a theater.
    - mbg721 5y ago
      Does Ridley Scott get a list of the names of people who watch his films?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - fredoliveira 5y ago
        I'm not sure how you equate watching a movie (which many would consider a relatively safe activity) to riding a plane with hundreds of other people (which some might consider not necessarily risky, but riskier). But sure, I guess I'll say "no, he doesn't". Now what?
rtkwe 5y ago
You always received some form of printed boarding pass... It's not exactly a new concept in air travel.
- mbg721 5y ago
  The difference is how intricately tied it is to personal identity. It's the difference between cash and a card.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Yes, I can't possibly imagine why it might be important to verify the identity of people getting on an airplane.
    - mbg721 5y ago
      I get the sarcasm, but...why does it have to be that way? For decades, high-school kids kept their rifles in the trunk, and fewer students got shot than now.
      - evilDagmar 5y ago
        At our high school most of the pickup trucks had gun racks. It wasn't until like, my sophomore year of high school before anyone even considered "Hey... those shouldn't be on school grounds". We all knew quite well "no guns allowed in the school", but rifles were about as common as umbrellas and considered equally notable. One day a nice officer noticed there were like five trucks with rifles visible in the back window, and went to the office to ask the students be advised _they might be stolen_. Halfway through that conversation it dawned on them that they were in fact guns, and then an announcement was made on the PA reminding students that they were actully still guns and were very banned in school so people should take them home after school and not bring them back. ONE student forgot the next day (who was a "bad" kid but not actually a bad guy) and was allowed to apologize to the school for his forgetfulness over the PA to make amends. (I shared a class with him when he got called to the office, so I know he was embarrassed to have forgotten. It was bad for his carefully cultivated "bad boy" reputation to get caught out doing something this trivial.) The difference between then and now is that since people were always interacting in person there was less tendency for people to become psychopath basement trolls who would willfully bully someone to the breaking point and beyond.
kelnos 5y ago
You can still do that (boarding pass has nothing to do with that process), but given that most people book in advance, you'll run the risk of there not being room on the flight you want, or of getting a crappy seat, or of having to pay significantly more than if you booked in advance.
jdporter 5y ago
Show up, pay, and ride? Like getting on the subway? Not workable, for two reasons: 1, from the passengers' perspective, you need to get to Indianapolis, and when you show up, there are no seats, or worse, no flights. 2, from the airlines' perspective, no one buys advance tickets, you have no idea how big of a plane (and thus also how much fuel and how many support staff) you'll need, nor when, nor even whether you'll need a plane at all. Planning. Airplanes aren't subways.

nahkoots 5y ago

For me it'll be "yes". If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. If someone keeps missing important emails because their provider's spam checker isn't very good, that's not my problem. Although I have to say that I don't run into these situations very frequently, and I use a basic postfix/dovecot setup on a VPS for my mail.

leephillips 5y ago
Same situation and attitude on my part. It doesn’t happen often, but when someone is not getting my email (usually hotmail or some other garbage provider) I tell them to complain to their email provider or get a new one. My mail is going out, my server logs show everything is OK, and I will not jump through hoops to prove that I am not a spammer (I already jumped through the DKIM, etc. hoops).
aspyct 5y ago
On the other hand, if you lose a sale because of lost emails, that's annoying...
vineyardmike 5y ago
> If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. Sure but now you can't get home. I travel a ton, and this would be a major issue for me. You can't always just get on a different plane. Lucky you i guess, but airlines are one of those things that most people can't mess with.
c7DJTLrn 5y ago
>If an airline cancels my boarding pass because they don't like my email address (?), too bad for them, they just lost a sale. Trust me, they don't care, I say this from experience. They don't seem to even have insight into these bans or the volume they're happening in. I had to spam Amazon support on and off for two years to get my account unlocked. And we all know how much Amazon cares about the customer... pah. Standing your ground as a customer doesn't do anything but make life a misery.
5y ago

AshamedCaptain 5y ago

There are a lot of intermediate options and smaller (& older) ISPs other than ProtonMail or Gmail. For some reason it's very tempting to go to the big names.