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You can totally build first. Developers always do. The problem is you have to sell at some point, if it's not customers to begin with then it has to be investor

You can totally build first. Developers always do. The problem is you have to sell at some point, if it's not customers to begin with then it has to be investors, but invariably you will be selling to customers. Products do not sell or market themselves.

lolinder 5y ago
I think OP's point is that if you build something and then try to sell it, what you have might not be something anyone needs. If you sell something and then build it, you've already got customers so you know you've got something.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  "Sell" is an exaggeration if this is the case. You can achieve the same result just by talking to people to validate the idea. Literally, selling then building is an entirely different thing that sets a hard deadline on what you build.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    > You can achieve the same result just by talking to people to validate the idea. Not quite: saying you'd buy something and actually forking over the cash are two very different things. I've expressed interest in many a project that—when actually made available—I decided I didn't really need after all. Is it always practical to actually sell a not-yet-existing product? No. But do you get the same data from just talking to people? Not at all.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      Well depends on how you frame the question right? To validate your idea you have to ask the right questions and penetrate all the bias and politeness. So for example you can ask them this: "Give me your honest answer. Let's say I had the product ready and finished and perfected right now... would you or would you not buy it from me?" You really need to drive at this, you don't need to actually "sell" it. Validating an idea isn't a casual thing, but you don't have to go as far as actually selling it.
      - cercatrova 5y ago
        People will still say they'd buy it and then not actually buy. The only way to actually verify that they'd pay is to, well, make them pay for it. Collect their money first and then if it doesn't work out, offer a refund, like Kickstarter does.
        deltaonefour 5y ago
        Not true. You can frame it in a way to get the truth out. You gotta dig past the surface level bs. It is totally possible to get these real answers out of people. Your human, they're human and are able to simulate hypotheticals quite accurately if the simulation is framed correctly. In fact I find it highly highly mistaken to think that it is fundamentally impossible for humans to answer that question.
  - meetups323 5y ago
    Importantly, those people you talk to to validate the idea should ideally be continuously consulted. So rather than: "hey I'm thinking of making this project, do you think you'd use it?" // "Yeah sure, seems helpful I guess" you have: "hey, person who told me they'd use this, here's the latest update where I've implemented X feature you and some others requested, I also am trialing Y feature that I think might be cool, and I polished Z item that I saw some others were getting hung up on, do you mind trying the latest version out and letting me know what you think?" If you're unable/unwilling to maintain those kinds of relationships/conversations over the long term, consider a PM.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      You have to maintain those relationships. You have to do everything in your power to validate the idea. There are tons of ways to do it including paying people, open source. Selling the idea before it exists is just a singular option out of multitudes.
lazide 5y ago
It’s very high risk, because you don’t know what you’re aiming at. The odds your product will hit a target that you have no idea if it even exists or not (or what it looks like, or what it’s shape is), is often lower than if you do. Definitely not impossible of course! But the odds are long enough already, it’s silly to not shorten them if you can.

lolinder 5y ago

I think OP's point is that if you build something and then try to sell it, what you have might not be something anyone needs. If you sell something and then build it, you've already got customers so you know you've got something.

deltaonefour 5y ago
"Sell" is an exaggeration if this is the case. You can achieve the same result just by talking to people to validate the idea. Literally, selling then building is an entirely different thing that sets a hard deadline on what you build.
- lolinder 5y ago
  > You can achieve the same result just by talking to people to validate the idea. Not quite: saying you'd buy something and actually forking over the cash are two very different things. I've expressed interest in many a project that—when actually made available—I decided I didn't really need after all. Is it always practical to actually sell a not-yet-existing product? No. But do you get the same data from just talking to people? Not at all.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    Well depends on how you frame the question right? To validate your idea you have to ask the right questions and penetrate all the bias and politeness. So for example you can ask them this: "Give me your honest answer. Let's say I had the product ready and finished and perfected right now... would you or would you not buy it from me?" You really need to drive at this, you don't need to actually "sell" it. Validating an idea isn't a casual thing, but you don't have to go as far as actually selling it.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      People will still say they'd buy it and then not actually buy. The only way to actually verify that they'd pay is to, well, make them pay for it. Collect their money first and then if it doesn't work out, offer a refund, like Kickstarter does.
      - deltaonefour 5y ago
        Not true. You can frame it in a way to get the truth out. You gotta dig past the surface level bs. It is totally possible to get these real answers out of people. Your human, they're human and are able to simulate hypotheticals quite accurately if the simulation is framed correctly. In fact I find it highly highly mistaken to think that it is fundamentally impossible for humans to answer that question.
- meetups323 5y ago
  Importantly, those people you talk to to validate the idea should ideally be continuously consulted. So rather than: "hey I'm thinking of making this project, do you think you'd use it?" // "Yeah sure, seems helpful I guess" you have: "hey, person who told me they'd use this, here's the latest update where I've implemented X feature you and some others requested, I also am trialing Y feature that I think might be cool, and I polished Z item that I saw some others were getting hung up on, do you mind trying the latest version out and letting me know what you think?" If you're unable/unwilling to maintain those kinds of relationships/conversations over the long term, consider a PM.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    You have to maintain those relationships. You have to do everything in your power to validate the idea. There are tons of ways to do it including paying people, open source. Selling the idea before it exists is just a singular option out of multitudes.

lazide 5y ago

It’s very high risk, because you don’t know what you’re aiming at. The odds your product will hit a target that you have no idea if it even exists or not (or what it looks like, or what it’s shape is), is often lower than if you do. Definitely not impossible of course! But the odds are long enough already, it’s silly to not shorten them if you can.