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> What I would support is not announcing Russian government owned IP blocks outside of the country. It would exclusively punish official Russian government inst

by devy 5y ago

> What I would support is not announcing Russian government owned IP blocks outside of the country. It would exclusively punish official Russian government institutions and potentially cause issues for any officials abroad (think VPN connections). That could be perceived as a posture of war by adversaries. And it's a really bad idea. Have you considered for the innocent Russian people who doesn't agree with the war? What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible? Economical / sports / Internet sanctions are double edge sword. There are unintended consequences and unfortunately no way to do it without collateral damages.

TrueDuality 5y ago
As I mentioned, this wouldn't impact any domestic access to any services. Everything would remain available and accessible inside of Russia.
sdenton4 5y ago
"What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible?" I struggle to imagine a less consequential outcome... A whole country of people are being bombed out of their houses, vs some portion of people maybe won't be able to renew their driver's licenses? You've convinced me; cut the internet.
- practice9 5y ago
  Didn't see your comment when I posted, but I have the same thoughts
- sdenton4 5y ago
  Oh, look; Russia just decided to do it themselves: https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1499528927458508809?s=20&t=yXiYDHdlD-vzVbJJsyPe_w https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/149952892745850880...
cabalamat 5y ago
> Have you considered for the innocent Russian people who doesn't agree with the war? What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible? I assume that a Russian accessing a Russian website would be unaffected by any such measures. Also, I wonder what backdoor facilities the NSA put into Apple and Android phones? The US would very much like to continue getting any such intelligence.
practice9 5y ago
It's a fallacy to consider Russian people are "innocent" in this situation. The nation as a whole is complicit to choosing the same old dictator for 20+ years. Like Germans in 1930s. Also, why should Ukrainian cities be bombed every day, while Russians just happily go about their daily lives? It's morally inexcusable. > they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible Perhaps, they can go to the DMV office?
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Like those Jewish Germans? Would you punish them for Hilter's actions?
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  This is oddly reminiscent of the justification Osama bin laden gave for 9/11 and it's a bit shocking. Why would Americans civilians be "innocent" and just happily go about their daily lives while middle eastern cities were bombed and Muslims were routinely killed by the American military? Do you not see how dangerous that rhetoric is?
- swat535 5y ago
  > choosing the same old dictator for 20+ years You don't _choose_ a dictator.. Dictators stay in power by force: they kill, torture, jail and brainwash people. They control the media and monitor all communications and anyone who speaks against them will suffer dire consequences. Perhaps you ask, well why don't people just "rise up"? Take up arms and overthrow the regime? Well in that case, the government would rather flatten the entire nation with airstrikes than let the rebels win.. Even after painting the streets with their own blood and somehow accomplishing this, there is no guarantee that a democracy would take place if the central government is weakened.. Still don't believe me? Look at the Arab spring and where it led the people of Egypt and Syria. Honestly, the comments on HN regarding this matter are very naive.. PS: If you think you have the stomach for it and want to _actually_ see what this path ends up looking like, have a look at The Cave: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7178226 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7178226 (Warning: very graphic)
tablespoon 5y ago
> That could be perceived as a posture of war by adversaries. And it's a really bad idea. IMHO, Putin's Russia has gotten really good at exploiting "fears about perceptions" to get away with a lot of shit, because it's "sensible" adversaries pull their punches. > Have you considered for the innocent Russian people who doesn't agree with the war? What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible? I doubt a Russian DMV site is running on a foreign sever. Didn't Russia itself do some kind of test disconnection from the internet a year or two ago?

by devy 5y ago

TrueDuality 5y ago

As I mentioned, this wouldn't impact any domestic access to any services. Everything would remain available and accessible inside of Russia.

sdenton4 5y ago

"What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible?" I struggle to imagine a less consequential outcome... A whole country of people are being bombed out of their houses, vs some portion of people maybe won't be able to renew their driver's licenses? You've convinced me; cut the internet.

practice9 5y ago
Didn't see your comment when I posted, but I have the same thoughts
sdenton4 5y ago
Oh, look; Russia just decided to do it themselves: https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1499528927458508809?s=20&t=yXiYDHdlD-vzVbJJsyPe_w https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/149952892745850880...

cabalamat 5y ago

> Have you considered for the innocent Russian people who doesn't agree with the war? What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible? I assume that a Russian accessing a Russian website would be unaffected by any such measures. Also, I wonder what backdoor facilities the NSA put into Apple and Android phones? The US would very much like to continue getting any such intelligence.

practice9 5y ago

It's a fallacy to consider Russian people are "innocent" in this situation. The nation as a whole is complicit to choosing the same old dictator for 20+ years. Like Germans in 1930s. Also, why should Ukrainian cities be bombed every day, while Russians just happily go about their daily lives? It's morally inexcusable. > they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible Perhaps, they can go to the DMV office?

ipaddr 5y ago
Like those Jewish Germans? Would you punish them for Hilter's actions?
mardifoufs 5y ago
This is oddly reminiscent of the justification Osama bin laden gave for 9/11 and it's a bit shocking. Why would Americans civilians be "innocent" and just happily go about their daily lives while middle eastern cities were bombed and Muslims were routinely killed by the American military? Do you not see how dangerous that rhetoric is?
swat535 5y ago
> choosing the same old dictator for 20+ years You don't _choose_ a dictator.. Dictators stay in power by force: they kill, torture, jail and brainwash people. They control the media and monitor all communications and anyone who speaks against them will suffer dire consequences. Perhaps you ask, well why don't people just "rise up"? Take up arms and overthrow the regime? Well in that case, the government would rather flatten the entire nation with airstrikes than let the rebels win.. Even after painting the streets with their own blood and somehow accomplishing this, there is no guarantee that a democracy would take place if the central government is weakened.. Still don't believe me? Look at the Arab spring and where it led the people of Egypt and Syria. Honestly, the comments on HN regarding this matter are very naive.. PS: If you think you have the stomach for it and want to _actually_ see what this path ends up looking like, have a look at The Cave: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7178226 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7178226 (Warning: very graphic)

tablespoon 5y ago

> That could be perceived as a posture of war by adversaries. And it's a really bad idea. IMHO, Putin's Russia has gotten really good at exploiting "fears about perceptions" to get away with a lot of shit, because it's "sensible" adversaries pull their punches. > Have you considered for the innocent Russian people who doesn't agree with the war? What about their daily lives in Russia where they need to get driver's license online to be renewed but couldn't because their DMV website is inaccessible? I doubt a Russian DMV site is running on a foreign sever. Didn't Russia itself do some kind of test disconnection from the internet a year or two ago?