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Plenty of anti Iraq war protesters got arrested Just one of many examples: https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-million-to-settle-arrest

Plenty of anti Iraq war protesters got arrested Just one of many examples: https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-million-to-settle-arrests-at-2003-war-protest-20120209-story.html?outputType=amp https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-m...

lolinder 5y ago
I'm not condoning those arrests, but their scope is nothing like what we're seeing in Russia, and that news article is about the arrested being paid damages because the arrests were illegal. Even then, all involved were released the next day. The scope of the arrests in Russia is much wider (as a percentage of those protesting and in raw numbers), and they're legal.
- netmonk 5y ago
  - ttybird2 5y ago
    "Can you explain why Snowden is refugee in Russia for having denouncing the crime of USA worldwide ?" Afaik, you are probably thinking of Assange (who is currently under arrest in the UK). Snowden is a refugee in Russia for exposing NSA's surveillance.
- waffleiron 5y ago
  They were illegal as mass arrest, there were plenty of other people who got legally arrested protesting the Iraq war (and were not released the next day). I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. edit: s/mass protest/mass arrest
  - lolinder 5y ago
    > They were illegal as mass protest Do you have a source for this? The only instances of arrests I can find are things like the above (illegal arrests) or people who trespassed on private property and were arrested for that. Meanwhile I can find plenty of stories of perfectly legal thousands-strong protests, which sounds like "mass protest" to me. > I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. Yes, but it depends on the purpose of placing that emphasis. "Even in a democracy we must be vigilant" is one thing. "We shouldn't condemn Russia for their human rights abuses because we're no different" is a very different message, and one that is manifestly false.
    - waffleiron 5y ago
      Ah! Apologies, I'll edit my post, I meant mass arrest
      - lolinder 5y ago
        Ah, that makes way more sense! Thanks.
  - glenstein 5y ago
    >I know the scope is different, but This is the hinge on which false equivalences turn. The scope is different, they shouldn't be compared, and being able to correctly grasp and differentiate different scales of moral offense shouldn't be interpreted as "I guess they don't know bad stuff happens elsewhere." Those comparisons do more to obfuscate than clarify.
    - waffleiron 5y ago
      >The scope is different, they shouldn't be compared Then nothing can ever be compared, there is always going to be differences between situations. Even just cultural differences between Russia and the US.
megous 5y ago
Do you have a similar article where some Russian city is proposing financial settlements for arrests of protersters from anti-war demonstrations 8 years ago?
glenstein 5y ago
Parent commenter made the point about "arrest[ing] 7000+ protesters in the course of the first week of the war" and your purported equivalence to that is that "plenty" were arrested. There's a failure of vision, a failure to understand differences in scale that is driving these false equivalences, that then leads to a bunch of equivocation about whether the unlike comparisons can be similar. I think the original point stands and this remains a false equivalence.
- waffleiron 5y ago
  > and your purported equivalence to that is that "plenty" were arrested. 800 illegally arrested in a single city, on a single day after the invasion. San Francisco had 2,200 protest arrests in the two days. [1] https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.iraq29mar29-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.iraq29mar29-story.html
  - lolinder 5y ago
    For others who want more context for the SF arrests like I did: https://www.salon.com/2003/03/20/protest_16/ https://www.salon.com/2003/03/20/protest_16/ > The biggest antiwar eruption in the U.S. took place in San Francisco, where protesters had vowed to shut down the city, and the police reported making more arrests than any time during the past two decades. The protests began during the morning rush hour, when activists used duct tape for purposes that Tom Ridge at the Office of Homeland Security would never recommend: blocking the intersection at Battery and Columbus, while handing out stickers that said "No War in My Name." > During the morning rush hour, the city's Financial District was shut down by human blockades that stretched from the Embarcadero to Van Ness Avenue, stopping cars and bus traffic for hours and provoking a wave of arrests. > By 4:30 p.m., several thousand protesters began sitting down at the busy intersection of Fifth and Market, where police began carting off dozens of them to a MUNI bus that had been commandeered as a paddy wagon.
DoItToMe81 5y ago
Bush also extensively used "free speech zones" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone) to cordon off and split up protests so that they would not be seen or reach a wider audience.

lolinder 5y ago

I'm not condoning those arrests, but their scope is nothing like what we're seeing in Russia, and that news article is about the arrested being paid damages because the arrests were illegal. Even then, all involved were released the next day. The scope of the arrests in Russia is much wider (as a percentage of those protesting and in raw numbers), and they're legal.

netmonk 5y ago
- ttybird2 5y ago
  "Can you explain why Snowden is refugee in Russia for having denouncing the crime of USA worldwide ?" Afaik, you are probably thinking of Assange (who is currently under arrest in the UK). Snowden is a refugee in Russia for exposing NSA's surveillance.
waffleiron 5y ago
They were illegal as mass arrest, there were plenty of other people who got legally arrested protesting the Iraq war (and were not released the next day). I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. edit: s/mass protest/mass arrest
- lolinder 5y ago
  > They were illegal as mass protest Do you have a source for this? The only instances of arrests I can find are things like the above (illegal arrests) or people who trespassed on private property and were arrested for that. Meanwhile I can find plenty of stories of perfectly legal thousands-strong protests, which sounds like "mass protest" to me. > I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. Yes, but it depends on the purpose of placing that emphasis. "Even in a democracy we must be vigilant" is one thing. "We shouldn't condemn Russia for their human rights abuses because we're no different" is a very different message, and one that is manifestly false.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    Ah! Apologies, I'll edit my post, I meant mass arrest
    - lolinder 5y ago
      Ah, that makes way more sense! Thanks.
- glenstein 5y ago
  >I know the scope is different, but This is the hinge on which false equivalences turn. The scope is different, they shouldn't be compared, and being able to correctly grasp and differentiate different scales of moral offense shouldn't be interpreted as "I guess they don't know bad stuff happens elsewhere." Those comparisons do more to obfuscate than clarify.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    >The scope is different, they shouldn't be compared Then nothing can ever be compared, there is always going to be differences between situations. Even just cultural differences between Russia and the US.

megous 5y ago

Do you have a similar article where some Russian city is proposing financial settlements for arrests of protersters from anti-war demonstrations 8 years ago?

glenstein 5y ago

Parent commenter made the point about "arrest[ing] 7000+ protesters in the course of the first week of the war" and your purported equivalence to that is that "plenty" were arrested. There's a failure of vision, a failure to understand differences in scale that is driving these false equivalences, that then leads to a bunch of equivocation about whether the unlike comparisons can be similar. I think the original point stands and this remains a false equivalence.

waffleiron 5y ago
> and your purported equivalence to that is that "plenty" were arrested. 800 illegally arrested in a single city, on a single day after the invasion. San Francisco had 2,200 protest arrests in the two days. [1] https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.iraq29mar29-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.iraq29mar29-story.html
- lolinder 5y ago
  For others who want more context for the SF arrests like I did: https://www.salon.com/2003/03/20/protest_16/ https://www.salon.com/2003/03/20/protest_16/ > The biggest antiwar eruption in the U.S. took place in San Francisco, where protesters had vowed to shut down the city, and the police reported making more arrests than any time during the past two decades. The protests began during the morning rush hour, when activists used duct tape for purposes that Tom Ridge at the Office of Homeland Security would never recommend: blocking the intersection at Battery and Columbus, while handing out stickers that said "No War in My Name." > During the morning rush hour, the city's Financial District was shut down by human blockades that stretched from the Embarcadero to Van Ness Avenue, stopping cars and bus traffic for hours and provoking a wave of arrests. > By 4:30 p.m., several thousand protesters began sitting down at the busy intersection of Fifth and Market, where police began carting off dozens of them to a MUNI bus that had been commandeered as a paddy wagon.

DoItToMe81 5y ago

Bush also extensively used "free speech zones" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone) to cordon off and split up protests so that they would not be seen or reach a wider audience.