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> Would you crowdsource the plan for your open heart surgery? I think you are over estimating the actual negotiators. Most (if not all) are politicians not hos

> Would you crowdsource the plan for your open heart surgery? I think you are over estimating the actual negotiators. Most (if not all) are politicians not hostage negotiators. And this is even a different game.

lm28469 5y ago
Don't we vote for representatives to ... represent the ourselves (the crowd) so we don't have to take individual actions like these ?
- galfarragem 5y ago
  I personally prefer referendums to representatives on relevant issues. Representatives have a personal agenda that often does not align with the collective interest. With a prior referendum I believe no war would ever start.
  - dash2 5y ago
    My plumber has a personal agenda that is different from mine, yet I hire a plumber to do my plumbing. Sure, politicians have personal agendas. They also might have expertise. Do you know more than Biden and his team about Putin, Russia and the Ukraine?
    - galfarragem 5y ago
      Your plumber's personal agenda aligns with yours: you want the pipe repaired and you don't even mind to pay X, the plumber wants to receive X and he doesn't even mind to repair your pipe. His knowledge is used in your interest also. Politicians, by the other hand, may know more than us but that knowledge may or may not be used in our interest.
      - dash2 5y ago
        You’ve obviously never met a British plumber …
notahacker 5y ago
I think the point is the politicians are the ones implementing it, irrespective of their drafting skill. It's not just about the wording of the agreement, it's about their understanding of the others' position and which bits they might actually give way on, about how much they and fellow politicians that might replace them are willing to lose, about which pledges they expect to see broken/break and the expected consequences of breaking them, if any. Frankly the fairest settlement of all time which one of the parties immediately breaks at great cost to the other is less likely to work than a horrendously skewed agreement that gives some much needed wiggle room. Even if the winning open heart surgery plan was drawn up by a couple of brilliant surgeons, I'd still expect the person wielding the tools to prefer their own plan, and probably for the best

lm28469 5y ago

Don't we vote for representatives to ... represent the ourselves (the crowd) so we don't have to take individual actions like these ?

galfarragem 5y ago
I personally prefer referendums to representatives on relevant issues. Representatives have a personal agenda that often does not align with the collective interest. With a prior referendum I believe no war would ever start.
- dash2 5y ago
  My plumber has a personal agenda that is different from mine, yet I hire a plumber to do my plumbing. Sure, politicians have personal agendas. They also might have expertise. Do you know more than Biden and his team about Putin, Russia and the Ukraine?
  - galfarragem 5y ago
    Your plumber's personal agenda aligns with yours: you want the pipe repaired and you don't even mind to pay X, the plumber wants to receive X and he doesn't even mind to repair your pipe. His knowledge is used in your interest also. Politicians, by the other hand, may know more than us but that knowledge may or may not be used in our interest.
    - dash2 5y ago
      You’ve obviously never met a British plumber …

notahacker 5y ago

I think the point is the politicians are the ones implementing it, irrespective of their drafting skill. It's not just about the wording of the agreement, it's about their understanding of the others' position and which bits they might actually give way on, about how much they and fellow politicians that might replace them are willing to lose, about which pledges they expect to see broken/break and the expected consequences of breaking them, if any. Frankly the fairest settlement of all time which one of the parties immediately breaks at great cost to the other is less likely to work than a horrendously skewed agreement that gives some much needed wiggle room. Even if the winning open heart surgery plan was drawn up by a couple of brilliant surgeons, I'd still expect the person wielding the tools to prefer their own plan, and probably for the best