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Consider always the ramifications of defeat. If Russia shows nothing truly matters against them. If nuclear weapons are all anyone makes a decision based on the

by ianai 5y ago

Consider always the ramifications of defeat. If Russia shows nothing truly matters against them. If nuclear weapons are all anyone makes a decision based on then only nuclear weapons matter. Do you think China is watching this? Duh. Do you think that translates to further invasions? Duh. The barrel of options against Russia needs to be exhausted. The only way to stop a bully such as this is to hit them the hardest, most brutal way, earliest. Putin and anyone supporting him should have been routed in the early 2000s. This decision here is nothing short of appeasement.

shabier 5y ago
> The only way to stop a bully such as this is to hit them the hardest, most brutal way, earliest. Only if we had the same attitude against European countries or the US. It really seems like a one-sided stance most of the time. One of the few times that a European or US (allay) receives similar treatment as they dish out, they completely freak out, making outrageous demands or requests such as the one to ICANN. > The barrel of options against Russia needs to be exhausted. Strong disagree, we should just retaliate in any way just for the sake of it- that's just not effective. edit: formatting
- ianai 5y ago
  ICANN and the existence of the internet are products of sovereignty post-WWII and free economy. If you want your Disney+ then you must agree to the post WWII world. Putin and Russia are currently living out a bygone era in the modern day. The two are incompatible.
- dangerface 5y ago
  > Only if we had the same attitude against European countries or the US. It really seems like a one-sided stance most of the time. The Iraq invasion was unprovoked and unjustified we lied about our reasons for doing it if other countries stood up to us maybe we would have responded differently. I protested our government when we did what Russia is doing I haven't changed my position one inch, maybe no one else has, maybe other westerners are just trying to justify Russia in hopes it will some how justify US actions, it doesn't both countries are bullies and deserve the same response.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jgrowl 5y ago
I find myself uncomfortably on your side of the argument, against the popular sentiment here. Russia is bombing Ukrainian communication towers, spreading malware, coordinating attacks, in an active unprovoked invasion. From my perspective, I see one country invading another country saying "If you try and stop us then we'll nuke the world." That is not how nuclear deterrence has worked in the past and if it not challenged then it will become the norm. Call their bluff. Hope that it is a bluff, because if it isn't, then it only will delay the inevitable until we are all in a worse bargaining place. To let evil flourish while you sit and do nothing is the same as doing evil. If we all die, then let us die doing what is right, in good conscience, protecting the vulnerable, upholding civilized order.
- ianai 5y ago
  Exactly. The current posture seems to be eroding the world order by simply reminding people they have nukes. That’s not a change. They’ve always had them. They’re trying to use them in a new way. This new way would have probably been dealt with much more severely in the 70s/80s/90s.

by ianai 5y ago

shabier 5y ago

> The only way to stop a bully such as this is to hit them the hardest, most brutal way, earliest. Only if we had the same attitude against European countries or the US. It really seems like a one-sided stance most of the time. One of the few times that a European or US (allay) receives similar treatment as they dish out, they completely freak out, making outrageous demands or requests such as the one to ICANN. > The barrel of options against Russia needs to be exhausted. Strong disagree, we should just retaliate in any way just for the sake of it- that's just not effective. edit: formatting

ianai 5y ago
ICANN and the existence of the internet are products of sovereignty post-WWII and free economy. If you want your Disney+ then you must agree to the post WWII world. Putin and Russia are currently living out a bygone era in the modern day. The two are incompatible.
dangerface 5y ago
> Only if we had the same attitude against European countries or the US. It really seems like a one-sided stance most of the time. The Iraq invasion was unprovoked and unjustified we lied about our reasons for doing it if other countries stood up to us maybe we would have responded differently. I protested our government when we did what Russia is doing I haven't changed my position one inch, maybe no one else has, maybe other westerners are just trying to justify Russia in hopes it will some how justify US actions, it doesn't both countries are bullies and deserve the same response.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jgrowl 5y ago

I find myself uncomfortably on your side of the argument, against the popular sentiment here. Russia is bombing Ukrainian communication towers, spreading malware, coordinating attacks, in an active unprovoked invasion. From my perspective, I see one country invading another country saying "If you try and stop us then we'll nuke the world." That is not how nuclear deterrence has worked in the past and if it not challenged then it will become the norm. Call their bluff. Hope that it is a bluff, because if it isn't, then it only will delay the inevitable until we are all in a worse bargaining place. To let evil flourish while you sit and do nothing is the same as doing evil. If we all die, then let us die doing what is right, in good conscience, protecting the vulnerable, upholding civilized order.

ianai 5y ago
Exactly. The current posture seems to be eroding the world order by simply reminding people they have nukes. That’s not a change. They’ve always had them. They’re trying to use them in a new way. This new way would have probably been dealt with much more severely in the 70s/80s/90s.