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Ottoman Empire had the same dilemma that Russia has been facing. It's economy was struggling, parts of it was turning into nation-states and it was involved in

Ottoman Empire had the same dilemma that Russia has been facing. It's economy was struggling, parts of it was turning into nation-states and it was involved in long wars in which it had no clear dedication. Russia (or Putin, to be frank) chose to try restoring the empire. Ottoman Sultans were trying to do the same as well, and failing. Atatürk, saw this and decided to create a Turkish identity, which was far from the main identity of the Ottomans. Some minorities were also integrated into this identity, using the language or religion. The Armenians however, being one of the oldest settlers in Anatolia, shared none of these. As well as the Kurds and the Greek. Many were displaced (and yes, it was a genocide, I'm not dancing around the word) and suffered a lot more than it's imaginable today. So I understand why they are afraid of their neighbor, and therefore skeptical towards NATO. Most of the Turkish (the minority I'm in, being the exception) don't want to accept any stain on their saviors history, so they deny any wrongdoing with passion. Their (well, our) whole identity is created through that process, you have to understand the sensitivity. Many like me are coming to terms with what actually happened, but it's hard. The religious barrier is also not making things easier for many others. I really wish eventually Turkey will recognize what happened, and some signs of diplomacy will start to show. Until then, I totally understand the Armenian position. I'm living in another country now, and my favorite restaurant has Armenian owners. We are good friends. They do support Ukraine in this war, but still show sympathy to the Russian ambitions. These things are hard to change and are ingrained in our brains when we are growing up, and we should be okay with it. This is how being respectful to other peoples opinions work. Disclosure: I consider myself of Turkish origin, not that I don't have my identity crises every now and then.

svaha1728 5y ago
Awesome. As part of the diaspora, I have met a ton of open-minded Turkish people. Especially in the US, if they have an artistic or educated leaning, we tend to have a lot in common. The more people who can see beyond national pride and try to know other groups of people, the better.
ocschwar 5y ago
I think it will take another generation, but Turks will take that step vis a vis the Armenians because in this world countries have to follow the German example of self-criticism to be seen as mature and responsible.
diminish 5y ago
A bit of counter-historical facts. 1. Russia wants to eliminate Ukraine, and Armenia is the sole explicit supporter 2. Russia did the same in 1915, arming Armenian Dashnaks to kill 500K to 1million of their neighbors; Turkish or Kurdish civilians unprotected due to Ottoman war against Russia. 3. Russia in 1990 punished Azerbaidjan protests in Baku and used Armenia as a puppet which occupied not only Karabagh but an additional 20% of Azerbaijan land and killed and displayed 100K to 1million people. 4. Ataturk's presence and war against occupants from Italy, England, Greece, France starts in 1919 long after the world war 1. So your interpretation is wrong. Finally yes I'm sad for the deaths, like everyone in Turkey. But we're sick of people who omit 5 million Turkish deaths in Balkans and Caucasus. 5. My several best mates in Turkey are Armenians. I love their everyhing. But I think Armenian nationalist heritage of Russia supported aggresiveness hurts all neighbors including Georgia too. Armenia's sole friends are Russia and Iran - and that is not a coincidence.
- kylehotchkiss 5y ago
  Not sure if this is still the case today, but Yerevan's US Embassy compound is the second largest in the world (couldn't find a more authoritative source in a quick google, but https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-the-world https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-t... and https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-the-world https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-t... roughly say the same things). It seems odd they'd let USA build such a massive operation in a country with the same population as Arkansas if US wasn't a friend. Of course, such a large embassy isn't being used only for visas, conducting local diplomacy, and USAID operations :)
- hnav 5y ago
  Counter-historical as in not corresponding to history? 1. What? 2. Genocide denial talking point straight from the hurriyet. Massacres had been going on for 20 years in 1915. 3. Armenia didn't occupy anything until 1992. In 1990 people in NKAO were speaking of independence as were people in the rest of AZSSR, in 1991 Soviet Union with the support of AZSSR was ethnically cleansing parts of AZSSR of Armenian militias. It wasn't until 1992 that after being besieged for a year NKAO defenders broke out and started occupying anything. 4. The civilians that were death marched into the Middle East were causing those millions of deaths?

svaha1728 5y ago

Awesome. As part of the diaspora, I have met a ton of open-minded Turkish people. Especially in the US, if they have an artistic or educated leaning, we tend to have a lot in common. The more people who can see beyond national pride and try to know other groups of people, the better.

ocschwar 5y ago

I think it will take another generation, but Turks will take that step vis a vis the Armenians because in this world countries have to follow the German example of self-criticism to be seen as mature and responsible.

diminish 5y ago

A bit of counter-historical facts. 1. Russia wants to eliminate Ukraine, and Armenia is the sole explicit supporter 2. Russia did the same in 1915, arming Armenian Dashnaks to kill 500K to 1million of their neighbors; Turkish or Kurdish civilians unprotected due to Ottoman war against Russia. 3. Russia in 1990 punished Azerbaidjan protests in Baku and used Armenia as a puppet which occupied not only Karabagh but an additional 20% of Azerbaijan land and killed and displayed 100K to 1million people. 4. Ataturk's presence and war against occupants from Italy, England, Greece, France starts in 1919 long after the world war 1. So your interpretation is wrong. Finally yes I'm sad for the deaths, like everyone in Turkey. But we're sick of people who omit 5 million Turkish deaths in Balkans and Caucasus. 5. My several best mates in Turkey are Armenians. I love their everyhing. But I think Armenian nationalist heritage of Russia supported aggresiveness hurts all neighbors including Georgia too. Armenia's sole friends are Russia and Iran - and that is not a coincidence.

kylehotchkiss 5y ago
Not sure if this is still the case today, but Yerevan's US Embassy compound is the second largest in the world (couldn't find a more authoritative source in a quick google, but https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-the-world https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-t... and https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-the-world https://pickvisa.com/blog/biggest-embassy-buildings-around-t... roughly say the same things). It seems odd they'd let USA build such a massive operation in a country with the same population as Arkansas if US wasn't a friend. Of course, such a large embassy isn't being used only for visas, conducting local diplomacy, and USAID operations :)
hnav 5y ago
Counter-historical as in not corresponding to history? 1. What? 2. Genocide denial talking point straight from the hurriyet. Massacres had been going on for 20 years in 1915. 3. Armenia didn't occupy anything until 1992. In 1990 people in NKAO were speaking of independence as were people in the rest of AZSSR, in 1991 Soviet Union with the support of AZSSR was ethnically cleansing parts of AZSSR of Armenian militias. It wasn't until 1992 that after being besieged for a year NKAO defenders broke out and started occupying anything. 4. The civilians that were death marched into the Middle East were causing those millions of deaths?