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The West is quick to abandon their own ideals. All the Western cutting ties with Russia has made most people I know (we are all Chinese) much more favorable to

The West is quick to abandon their own ideals. All the Western cutting ties with Russia has made most people I know (we are all Chinese) much more favorable towards the Great Firewall. If the West cut the ties with China, the damage is much less given that we are already in an effective LAN.

BeefWellington 5y ago
> The West is quick to abandon their own ideals. The response here would suggest the opposite.
- netheril96 5y ago
  The people here do not hold power. Those who do have abandoned the ideals.
MaxGanzII 5y ago
jacknews 5y ago
LOL, it's OK if they cut off our sunshine, because we're used to living in the dark anyway.
- olibhel 5y ago
  No country should be able to cut off anyone else's sunshine (or Internet). Internet, the western version of it, was not built and shared with the world with this disclaimer that we will cut it off if we feel like it. If ICANN kicks out a country, we'd very soon see the end of ICANN because other countries will have no trust left in the organization.
  - jacknews 5y ago
    I agree, it is a universal service that should be available to everyone under any circumstance. I'm just ridiculing the comment that said 'go ahead, we don't need it'.
- netheril96 5y ago
  With the Great Firewall, the Chinese have developed its own sunshine. Less quality, but sufficient for most people nonetheless.
VectorLock 5y ago
That isn't the Great Firewall's doing. Internet Protocols are designed that isolated networks will still work. The Great Firewall just makes you used to not having free access to information, which would happen when a network is isolated.
scythe 5y ago
Any ideals, anywhere, from the USSR to the US to Thailand or Oman, will always be subject to decay. The law of impermanence (無常) holds fast in politics because humans are forgetful. Societies must refresh and rebuild their ideals as their inertia is lost to time. When this happens in the West, you see a lot of political discord, as is occurring right now. But when it happened in the USSR, discontent built up behind the scenes until it exploded in a series of revolts that led to a decade of stagnation and corruption in eastern Europe. So, critique appreciated, but I'll take our flaws over your flaws.
qwertox 5y ago
I don't understand you. The content within the Great Firewall is a subset of the Internet, at least from the Chinese perspective, as I don't know what I can't see from the outside where I am. I also don't know what you can't see outside of it, but I assume that the censorship is limited to certain political topics and probably adult content. Russia has not been cut off from the internet. It is suffering highly focused DDoS attacks which are not originating due to any type of sanction or new law, or as a protest measure from companies. These are actions of individual hackers or hacker groups. Compared to the actions of REvil or Conti, these are absolutely harmless. The western ideal of the internet is very well described in that rejection letter, which might as well become a historical document in what it is trying to express. Now, what commercial network providers decide to route or not, is a very different story. But, from the looks of it, no routes have been dropped, and should that happen, peering agreements could provide workarounds, even around countries. It's usually the non-western countries which are implementing blocking so that their citizens have a restricted access, not the other way around. You seem to confuse the internet with the global market. From the perspective of the global markets' current sanctions, I can obviously understand your concern and motivation to be prepared in the future. But we are also concerned, because the harm goes both ways. It's an almost unnecessary recession which will affect many areas, where specially spaceflight-related decisions are already being very noticeable events, since they are so highly dependent on collaboration. Collaboration which was successful, until now. The Minsk Agreement could have been implemented within one or two years, the will to do so was there.
alphabetting 5y ago
What about the West sanctioning Russia makes blocking access to information more favorable to you and your friends?

BeefWellington 5y ago

> The West is quick to abandon their own ideals. The response here would suggest the opposite.

netheril96 5y ago
The people here do not hold power. Those who do have abandoned the ideals.

MaxGanzII 5y ago

jacknews 5y ago

LOL, it's OK if they cut off our sunshine, because we're used to living in the dark anyway.

olibhel 5y ago
No country should be able to cut off anyone else's sunshine (or Internet). Internet, the western version of it, was not built and shared with the world with this disclaimer that we will cut it off if we feel like it. If ICANN kicks out a country, we'd very soon see the end of ICANN because other countries will have no trust left in the organization.
- jacknews 5y ago
  I agree, it is a universal service that should be available to everyone under any circumstance. I'm just ridiculing the comment that said 'go ahead, we don't need it'.
netheril96 5y ago
With the Great Firewall, the Chinese have developed its own sunshine. Less quality, but sufficient for most people nonetheless.

VectorLock 5y ago

That isn't the Great Firewall's doing. Internet Protocols are designed that isolated networks will still work. The Great Firewall just makes you used to not having free access to information, which would happen when a network is isolated.

scythe 5y ago

Any ideals, anywhere, from the USSR to the US to Thailand or Oman, will always be subject to decay. The law of impermanence (無常) holds fast in politics because humans are forgetful. Societies must refresh and rebuild their ideals as their inertia is lost to time. When this happens in the West, you see a lot of political discord, as is occurring right now. But when it happened in the USSR, discontent built up behind the scenes until it exploded in a series of revolts that led to a decade of stagnation and corruption in eastern Europe. So, critique appreciated, but I'll take our flaws over your flaws.

qwertox 5y ago

I don't understand you. The content within the Great Firewall is a subset of the Internet, at least from the Chinese perspective, as I don't know what I can't see from the outside where I am. I also don't know what you can't see outside of it, but I assume that the censorship is limited to certain political topics and probably adult content. Russia has not been cut off from the internet. It is suffering highly focused DDoS attacks which are not originating due to any type of sanction or new law, or as a protest measure from companies. These are actions of individual hackers or hacker groups. Compared to the actions of REvil or Conti, these are absolutely harmless. The western ideal of the internet is very well described in that rejection letter, which might as well become a historical document in what it is trying to express. Now, what commercial network providers decide to route or not, is a very different story. But, from the looks of it, no routes have been dropped, and should that happen, peering agreements could provide workarounds, even around countries. It's usually the non-western countries which are implementing blocking so that their citizens have a restricted access, not the other way around. You seem to confuse the internet with the global market. From the perspective of the global markets' current sanctions, I can obviously understand your concern and motivation to be prepared in the future. But we are also concerned, because the harm goes both ways. It's an almost unnecessary recession which will affect many areas, where specially spaceflight-related decisions are already being very noticeable events, since they are so highly dependent on collaboration. Collaboration which was successful, until now. The Minsk Agreement could have been implemented within one or two years, the will to do so was there.

alphabetting 5y ago

What about the West sanctioning Russia makes blocking access to information more favorable to you and your friends?