5 ms·

I agree with you on that. Isolating them or ourselves from them will only trigger those who're already vulnerable to extremism to be become even more extreme.

MaxGanzII 5y ago
> or ourselves from them Russian media is purely State controlled and is preaching justifications for the invasion of Ukraine. This is not a free speech situation.
- shabier 5y ago
  Oh please, the same happened in the US after 9/11, and we all rolled with it. Cut the free speech nonsense, we're (as in big tech) not enforcing it either.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    These moral equivalencies have to stop. The US didn't declare anti-war protests to be illegal and arrest 7000+ protesters in the course of the first week of the war in Iraq. The US didn't shut down independent media outlets that were opposed to the war. The US didn't block (nascent) web platforms that hosted anti-war discussion. The US media is often a propaganda arm of the government. The Russian government tries to ensure their propaganda is all you see. There's a massive difference.
    - waffleiron 5y ago
      Plenty of anti Iraq war protesters got arrested Just one of many examples: https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-million-to-settle-arrests-at-2003-war-protest-20120209-story.html?outputType=amp https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-m...
      - lolinder 5y ago
        I'm not condoning those arrests, but their scope is nothing like what we're seeing in Russia, and that news article is about the arrested being paid damages because the arrests were illegal. Even then, all involved were released the next day. The scope of the arrests in Russia is much wider (as a percentage of those protesting and in raw numbers), and they're legal.
        netmonk 5y ago
        ttybird2 5y ago
        "Can you explain why Snowden is refugee in Russia for having denouncing the crime of USA worldwide ?" Afaik, you are probably thinking of Assange (who is currently under arrest in the UK). Snowden is a refugee in Russia for exposing NSA's surveillance.
        waffleiron 5y ago
        They were illegal as mass arrest, there were plenty of other people who got legally arrested protesting the Iraq war (and were not released the next day). I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. edit: s/mass protest/mass arrest
        lolinder 5y ago
        > They were illegal as mass protest Do you have a source for this? The only instances of arrests I can find are things like the above (illegal arrests) or people who trespassed on private property and were arrested for that. Meanwhile I can find plenty of stories of perfectly legal thousands-strong protests, which sounds like "mass protest" to me. > I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. Yes, but it depends on the purpose of placing that emphasis. "Even in a democracy we must be vigilant" is one thing. "We shouldn't condemn Russia for their human rights abuses because we're no different" is a very different message, and one that is manifestly false.
    - waffleiron 5y ago
      > The US didn't shut down independent media outlets that were opposed to the war. Only 3% of media coverage was anti-war, they didn't need to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War#Criticisms_of_pro-invasion_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War...
      - glenstein 5y ago
        Public opposition grew despite media narratives and there were ways to clamp down on domestic opposition that U.S. wouldn't entertain that Russia would. So these comparisons miss the forest for the trees.
      - lolinder 5y ago
        This is the study that that number comes from: https://fair.org/extra/amplifying-officials-squelching-dissent/ https://fair.org/extra/amplifying-officials-squelching-disse... That study says only 3% of individuals who were interviewed on the 6 studied channels were opposed to the war. They only studied coverage across 6 mainstream media outlets: > The news programs studied were ABC World News Tonight, CBS Evening News, NBC Nightly News, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Reports, Fox’s Special Report with Brit Hume, and PBS’s NewsHour With Jim Lehrer. This doesn't tell me anything about the state of independent news outlets at the time.
        waffleiron 5y ago
        Do independent news outlets really matter if the vast majority of people get their news for ABC / CBS / NBC / CCN / Fox /PBS? Again, I agree that the US acted in a different way than Russia does right now, but the situation itself is also different. The US did not need to take the actions Russia has to take, because the majority of people in the US where pro-war during the invasion, with only 17% strongly opposing the illegal war [1]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-america...
        lolinder 5y ago
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Canada did.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Give humanity a little more credit.
  - gjvc 5y ago
    experience shows that doing so is futile
  - megous 5y ago
    Here you have humanity (too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pNIGoCybk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pNIGoCybk https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk0Ktc21_lgVNiZRY9Py1Fg/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk0Ktc21_lgVNiZRY9Py1Fg/vid... https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1499298510394601474 https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1499298510394601474 (I guess a result of the state media control)
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  It isn’t ICANN’s job to control propaganda.
  - user-the-name 5y ago

MaxGanzII 5y ago

> or ourselves from them Russian media is purely State controlled and is preaching justifications for the invasion of Ukraine. This is not a free speech situation.

shabier 5y ago
Oh please, the same happened in the US after 9/11, and we all rolled with it. Cut the free speech nonsense, we're (as in big tech) not enforcing it either.
- lolinder 5y ago
  These moral equivalencies have to stop. The US didn't declare anti-war protests to be illegal and arrest 7000+ protesters in the course of the first week of the war in Iraq. The US didn't shut down independent media outlets that were opposed to the war. The US didn't block (nascent) web platforms that hosted anti-war discussion. The US media is often a propaganda arm of the government. The Russian government tries to ensure their propaganda is all you see. There's a massive difference.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    Plenty of anti Iraq war protesters got arrested Just one of many examples: https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-million-to-settle-arrests-at-2003-war-protest-20120209-story.html?outputType=amp https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/chi-city-offers-62-m...
    - lolinder 5y ago
      I'm not condoning those arrests, but their scope is nothing like what we're seeing in Russia, and that news article is about the arrested being paid damages because the arrests were illegal. Even then, all involved were released the next day. The scope of the arrests in Russia is much wider (as a percentage of those protesting and in raw numbers), and they're legal.
      - netmonk 5y ago
        ttybird2 5y ago
        "Can you explain why Snowden is refugee in Russia for having denouncing the crime of USA worldwide ?" Afaik, you are probably thinking of Assange (who is currently under arrest in the UK). Snowden is a refugee in Russia for exposing NSA's surveillance.
      - waffleiron 5y ago
        They were illegal as mass arrest, there were plenty of other people who got legally arrested protesting the Iraq war (and were not released the next day). I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. edit: s/mass protest/mass arrest
        lolinder 5y ago
        > They were illegal as mass protest Do you have a source for this? The only instances of arrests I can find are things like the above (illegal arrests) or people who trespassed on private property and were arrested for that. Meanwhile I can find plenty of stories of perfectly legal thousands-strong protests, which sounds like "mass protest" to me. > I know the scope is different, but it is also good to keep in mind that bad things don't only happen in Russia. Yes, but it depends on the purpose of placing that emphasis. "Even in a democracy we must be vigilant" is one thing. "We shouldn't condemn Russia for their human rights abuses because we're no different" is a very different message, and one that is manifestly false.
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    > The US didn't shut down independent media outlets that were opposed to the war. Only 3% of media coverage was anti-war, they didn't need to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War#Criticisms_of_pro-invasion_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War...
    - glenstein 5y ago
      Public opposition grew despite media narratives and there were ways to clamp down on domestic opposition that U.S. wouldn't entertain that Russia would. So these comparisons miss the forest for the trees.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      This is the study that that number comes from: https://fair.org/extra/amplifying-officials-squelching-dissent/ https://fair.org/extra/amplifying-officials-squelching-disse... That study says only 3% of individuals who were interviewed on the 6 studied channels were opposed to the war. They only studied coverage across 6 mainstream media outlets: > The news programs studied were ABC World News Tonight, CBS Evening News, NBC Nightly News, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Reports, Fox’s Special Report with Brit Hume, and PBS’s NewsHour With Jim Lehrer. This doesn't tell me anything about the state of independent news outlets at the time.
      - waffleiron 5y ago
        Do independent news outlets really matter if the vast majority of people get their news for ABC / CBS / NBC / CCN / Fox /PBS? Again, I agree that the US acted in a different way than Russia does right now, but the situation itself is also different. The US did not need to take the actions Russia has to take, because the majority of people in the US where pro-war during the invasion, with only 17% strongly opposing the illegal war [1]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-america...
        lolinder 5y ago
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Canada did.
stickfigure 5y ago
Give humanity a little more credit.
- gjvc 5y ago
  experience shows that doing so is futile
- megous 5y ago
  Here you have humanity (too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pNIGoCybk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pNIGoCybk https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk0Ktc21_lgVNiZRY9Py1Fg/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk0Ktc21_lgVNiZRY9Py1Fg/vid... https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1499298510394601474 https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1499298510394601474 (I guess a result of the state media control)
wbsss4412 5y ago
It isn’t ICANN’s job to control propaganda.
- user-the-name 5y ago