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I'm not sure what a peace treaty would even look like, except essentially Ukraine surrendering to Putin's demands. It is not as if Russia and Ukraine were two
by jacknews 5y ago
I'm not sure what a peace treaty would even look like, except essentially Ukraine surrendering to Putin's demands.
It is not as if Russia and Ukraine were two bitter enemies, locked in a death-match.
Ukraine is extremely close to Russia historically, culturally, etc, but they chose democracy, and were moving more and more toward a western style open and free society.
It seems that was too much for the Putin regime in Russia. Ukraine must now be brought back into the fold, and never again be allowed to stray.
Honestly, the relationship seems to be more like an abusive marriage than two independent states.
Is a peace treaty even really possible, or meaningful, with that underlying grievance? Perhaps only if Ukraine promises never to stray ever again, and to always be there when Putin demands it, etc. Or if Putin is brought to his knees with sanctions or other means.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago> I'm not sure what a peace treaty would even look like, except essentially Ukraine surrendering to Putin's demands. Putin isn't seeking a peace (as between nations) treaty with Ukraine at all. This is about adding to his recreated historic Russia, and on that basis to push forward for a new accommodation with the west. If this war ends with a peace treaty it will do so because it eventually escalated to a nuclear standoff with NATO. That's the only umbrella under which Putin could ever agree a "retreat". > Honestly, the relationship seems to be more like an abusive marriage than two independent states. This is a good characterisation and it has been made before -- that Putin's approach is that of an abusive spouse. "Look what you made me do."
- jacknews 5y agoI agree, the only 'peace treaty' that will work for Putin is Ukraine agreeing to become a vassal. Unless his power is diminished to the point he cannot impose his will.
- unfocussed_mike 5y agoYes. I suppose that would technically have to have some "treaty" to ratify it, so in that sense there will be one.
- _6p8i 5y agoI don't have extensive geopolitical understanding, but I wondered why Ukraine wasn't willing to compromise on some issues that I thought could've been dissected and resolved: - some fine tuning in the administration of Luhansk and Donetsk - restoring flow of drinking water into Crimea that Ukraine stopped after annexation - committing not to host NATO nuclear weapons
- unfocussed_mike 5y agoIt's because none of these things are really germane to what Putin wants. Ukraine is a pivot, not the prize. Putin wants Ukraine, and the Luhansk/Donetsk "peacekeeping" situations were largely manufactured to give a pretext to explain the trucks crossing the border -- which let's be honest he abandoned within less than 24 hours. The abusive partner analogy again: it's like when (usually a) woman agrees to sacrifice some freedom (her male friends, not socialising with a particular female friend, not going to the gym on her own) because it "unnerves" her partner. It's never asked in good faith, and it always prefigures more sacrifice down the line. Putin has manufactured these things you think Ukraine could consider compromising on.
- KingOfCoders 5y agoBecause https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/map-russian-empire-1914 https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/map-russian-empire-191...