11 ms·
The day after which, Ukraine will submit its NATO membership application.
by FeepingCreature 5y ago
The day after which, Ukraine will submit its NATO membership application.
- chillingeffect 5y agoIt virtually has but NATO doesn't universally want Ukraine. It's better strategy to have buffer states adjacent to major powers.
- throwthere 5y agoLegitimate question— why does everyone kind of not mention Estonia and Latvia when talking about NATO-Russia border states?
- watwut 5y agoBecause it shows how ridiculous "buffer zone" argument is.
- simion314 5y ago>It's better strategy to have buffer states adjacent to major powers I am not a strategist so why is this? And why for example wouldn't Russia tried to sign an alliance with this countries where they promise to respect each other territories and not participate in aggressive actions against each other. Isn't this a good enough buffer? it won't work if you don't want to renounce at teritory claims though
- mnw21cam 5y agoThey already did sign such a treaty with Ukraine.
- simion314 5y agoSo I am biased since I am from Romania, but IMo is clear Russia wants the natural resources and the strategical position from the Black Sea not to defend itself from the small easter European countries but just from pure greed, like in a cmputer game you rush to grab the natural resources to prevent the others to use them and grow, after you grow you invade and destroy their shit until they surrender. Defensive alliances would make sense if you want to protect yourself and this is what the eastern european countries want from NATO.
- rayiner 5y ago30% of Ukraine is Russians. The border conflict is deeply rooted and unavoidable, just like with India and Pakistan.
- bhaak 5y agoRussian speaking Ukrainians are not the same as Russians.
- graycrow 5y agoAs one of them, I 100% agree.
- rayiner 5y agoNeither are Bangla speaking Indians or Muslim Indians, but nonetheless this sort of thing is an extremely common basis for regional conflict that has nothing to do with anyone else.
- bhaak 5y agoBe cautious not to fall for propaganda. From both sides. I've read conflicting statements about how Russian speaking Ukrainians are treated in Ukraine but it's also not obvious to me why it should be so much worse in Donbass versus the rest of Ukraine. Just because there is a different language doesn't mean that there is automatically a cultural divide.
- emj 5y agoDoes that go for the the Baltic states as well where 25% are Russian speakers.
- simion314 5y agoThere are many countries that have similar conditions, minorities outside theyr borders, historical claims but when we entered EU and NATO we all had to make peace with our neighbors and give up or old grudges, I hope the young Russian generation would prefer to enter EU then reviewing some old empire.
- XorNot 5y agoThe buffer states argument is dead. Russia killed it. Europe now has to logistically support Ukraine, pivot it's energy market and disrupt its economy because Russia just showed the world it views buffer states as consumable components for future Russia. Buffer states are now a liability with Russia.
- panick21_ 5y agoNATO membership requires territorial integrity. A lot would have to change first. And I think even with all the excitement, clear heads will seriously question how well this strategy has worked.
- sgjohnson 5y ago> NATO membership requires territorial integrity. A lot would have to change first. That’s the Schengen area, not NATO.
- euroderf 5y agoBut NATO does require that there are no outstanding territorial disputes. So Russian occupation of part of Georgia is a tactic. Furthermore, to say that this NATO "requirement" was papered over when Greece and Turkey were admitted would be an understatement.
- sgjohnson 5y agoIs it really a formal requirement? I’ve only heard of Cyprus as an example, but this Cyprus is a flawed example, because NATO accession vote has to be unanimous, and Turkey is likely to veto it. Also if that was the case, then Ukraine’s NATO aspirations were dead as soon as Russia took Crimea, making this entire ordeal completely pointless.
- howmayiannoyyou 5y agoAlready submitted and de-facto rejected. Nobody wants Article 5 triggered over the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
- pydry 5y agoThat ship sailed in 2008 with the Bucharest conference. The membership process was stalled and unstalled but it's been underway for a while now. The NATO incursion in Libya leading to Gadaffi getting a rusty bayonet up his backside in 2011 seems to be the point where Putin viewed further expansion as red line though. Zelensky has spent the last two years begging them to hurry the membership application up.