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NATO and the EU kept expanding, even though Russia has made its objections many times over, explicitly stating their red lines. Instead of using diplomacy the w

NATO and the EU kept expanding, even though Russia has made its objections many times over, explicitly stating their red lines. Instead of using diplomacy the west just ignored Russia. So the west and particularly the EU and NATO being on the right moral side, I find that questionable. And just as the Russians live in a media bubble, so are we. The war is, here in the west, being portrayed as a very simple thing, Russia bad, west good, Russian imperialism, west defending democracy and liberty. And we humans love simple scenarios like this, black and white. However if you read through the history of Ukraine, EU, NATO and its relationship with Russia you'll notice it's not black and white, it's grey all the way through. There are no winners here. This is a major setback for the west and Russia regardless of the outcome and who fired the first bullet.

oezi 5y ago
The NATO and the EU didn't keep expanding, the Eastern European countries asked to join. They wanted protection from potential Russian aggression (in retrospect it is obvious how right they were), they wanted prosperity for their citizens. None of these countries were any threat to Russia. The whole Putin narrative that the West is at fault for this war by encroaching on a Russian sphere of influence is just incoherent bullshit. I also reject your 'both sides' argument. At least from a German perspective I know that European didn't do things 'against' Russia for the last 15 years that weren't clearly as a response to Russian wrong-doing (East Ukraine, Crimean, Syria). Heck, just one month ago Germany wanted to open another Gas pipeline with Russia.
Mashimo 5y ago
All the "western media" that give a quick 5+ minutes overview about the conflict also talk about Russias objections of NATO expansion and the history of Ukraine. But also how the people of Ukraine fought to get closer to the EU. I can't see how that makes it gray all the way through. There are nuances that we can't ignore, but it seems the people of Ukraine don't want to be under Russian control. Seems clear to me the attack was not .. gray.

oezi 5y ago

The NATO and the EU didn't keep expanding, the Eastern European countries asked to join. They wanted protection from potential Russian aggression (in retrospect it is obvious how right they were), they wanted prosperity for their citizens. None of these countries were any threat to Russia. The whole Putin narrative that the West is at fault for this war by encroaching on a Russian sphere of influence is just incoherent bullshit. I also reject your 'both sides' argument. At least from a German perspective I know that European didn't do things 'against' Russia for the last 15 years that weren't clearly as a response to Russian wrong-doing (East Ukraine, Crimean, Syria). Heck, just one month ago Germany wanted to open another Gas pipeline with Russia.

Mashimo 5y ago

All the "western media" that give a quick 5+ minutes overview about the conflict also talk about Russias objections of NATO expansion and the history of Ukraine. But also how the people of Ukraine fought to get closer to the EU. I can't see how that makes it gray all the way through. There are nuances that we can't ignore, but it seems the people of Ukraine don't want to be under Russian control. Seems clear to me the attack was not .. gray.