3 ms·

The US bombed Laos 1/2 million times. Yes, 1/2 million missions for at least 1000lbs of bombs per person. This information was hidden from the public at the ti

The US bombed Laos 1/2 million times. Yes, 1/2 million missions for at least 1000lbs of bombs per person. This information was hidden from the public at the time.

rjzzleep 5y ago
NATO(but mostly france, UK and the US) bombed Libya so many times that NATO ran out and Germany had to restock them[1]. Germany is always "kind of" neutral. The US dropped 27k missiles on 7 countries in 2016 alone.[2] But that isn't really the point of my post. While Russia did in fact declare war on Ukraine and for whatever reasons or whatever your opinion on that is, the West has effectively declared global war on Russia and it will take a lot of restraint from Russia not respond in kind. And since they can't respond in the same way economically the only option would be actual real war. This is what happens when you leave diplomacy to a bunch of lawyer bros from Oxford and Harvard who have never had to deal with someone saying no to them. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-libya-idUSTRE75Q5N320110627 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-libya-idUSTRE75Q5... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pak...
- baq 5y ago
  or you could say that they've collected intelligence on Putin and his inner circle and decided that they can turn it around on him. which seems to be sort of working, but at great cost. we'll see in a couple of weeks when russia starts running out of basic stuff like toilet paper. either way Putin doesn't seem to be treated as a rational actor anymore. he might still think straight, but he seems to believe in his own propaganda.
- erosenbe0 5y ago
  Good point (edit: about diplomatic underperformance if not corruption) You dont want these Harvard law types negotiating since they have no motivation [on average] to develop that competence. USA has constructed a legal system that has oligarchial characteristics. In Germany the top law graduates do not automatically earn 3x salary of graduates of average schools who pass same exam with same concrete skills. So developing competence or refinement of professional skill is not strictly necessary for top American legal graduates as the system is designed and regulated such that their firms earn windfall fees and their entry-level salary is way above experienced lawyer averages. Whereas in German system (for example) the fee differential reflects more of a proper free market without such ridiculous features.
  - rjzzleep 5y ago
    There seems to be a pretty tight link between the CDU/CSU and the Uni Bayreuth lawschool though. There's also the fact that there are a lot of Law professors in Germany that are famous for taking advantage of girls during their studies, because if you don't get a good grade in the law system you're effectively out and because they have lifetime tenure they have nothing to fear. But I do agree that on the grand scheme of themes Germany is WAY better than the other countries, especially considering the fact that they actually have a lot more parties in their parliament and sometimes actually have diverse opinions on things.
    - erosenbe0 5y ago
      Thanks for insight on German system. In USA, as elsewhere, there is a market for legal services, which of course motivates skill and competence. But the construction of the system (by the elites) is such that there is maybe an upper 5% of services that generate ~10x more revenues -- things like corporate mergers, investment banking, certain torts, etc. This doesn't happen as much in other countries. And you don't get into the premium service club by working 20 years to be a master of the trade -- you get there by simply gaining admission to Harvard Law and passing the bar same as any other lawyer.
another_story 5y ago
And that makes it ok for Russia to bomb innocent Ukranians? What is even the point of bringing up the US and the terrible things their government has done?
- Nemrod67 5y ago
  not really, but it makes us hypocrites
- erosenbe0 5y ago
  Absolutely nothing makes it okay. I think the assertion is that if the USA looked inward and led more by example then that would make the world a better place. Leading by example is always best. Just these last recent Olympics the Russians couldn't compete under their own flag as punishment for various serious transgressions. But the greatest scandal in the history of Olympic sports by a mile is the American Nassar child abuse scandal. Were we Americans punished and banned from having our flag flown at the Olympics? So maybe next time we don't look the other way on decades of abuse? Nah, Michigan and it's insurers are on the hook for a up to a cool billion and life moves on for us none the wiser. Edit: we have to show people (non-westerners) there is a better way and not assume it is self-evident! If they are exposed constantly to propaganda on [true] western hypocrisies it makes it so much more difficult for them to believe that the west's liberal order, though imperfect, is not as rotten as the alternatives. So that's why I advocate for Americans to look inward
  - another_story 5y ago
    You don't think many Americans are equally upset about all the things their government does? Bernie Sanders was just on CSPAN talking about the US overthrowing leadership in S. America. Many Americans are fully aware of how messed up their country is. That being said, anytime anything anywhere bad happens a line of people forms to say “What about America,” as if that somehow absolves others. Also, the Olympics have been a joke for decades. I don't even understand why countries still waste the time and energy supporting it.
    - 5y ago

The US bombed Laos 1/2 million times. Yes, 1/2 million missions for at least 1000lbs of bombs per person. This information was hidden from the public at the time.

rjzzleep 5y ago

NATO(but mostly france, UK and the US) bombed Libya so many times that NATO ran out and Germany had to restock them[1]. Germany is always "kind of" neutral. The US dropped 27k missiles on 7 countries in 2016 alone.[2] But that isn't really the point of my post. While Russia did in fact declare war on Ukraine and for whatever reasons or whatever your opinion on that is, the West has effectively declared global war on Russia and it will take a lot of restraint from Russia not respond in kind. And since they can't respond in the same way economically the only option would be actual real war. This is what happens when you leave diplomacy to a bunch of lawyer bros from Oxford and Harvard who have never had to deal with someone saying no to them. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-libya-idUSTRE75Q5N320110627 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-libya-idUSTRE75Q5... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pak...

baq 5y ago
or you could say that they've collected intelligence on Putin and his inner circle and decided that they can turn it around on him. which seems to be sort of working, but at great cost. we'll see in a couple of weeks when russia starts running out of basic stuff like toilet paper. either way Putin doesn't seem to be treated as a rational actor anymore. he might still think straight, but he seems to believe in his own propaganda.
erosenbe0 5y ago
Good point (edit: about diplomatic underperformance if not corruption) You dont want these Harvard law types negotiating since they have no motivation [on average] to develop that competence. USA has constructed a legal system that has oligarchial characteristics. In Germany the top law graduates do not automatically earn 3x salary of graduates of average schools who pass same exam with same concrete skills. So developing competence or refinement of professional skill is not strictly necessary for top American legal graduates as the system is designed and regulated such that their firms earn windfall fees and their entry-level salary is way above experienced lawyer averages. Whereas in German system (for example) the fee differential reflects more of a proper free market without such ridiculous features.
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  There seems to be a pretty tight link between the CDU/CSU and the Uni Bayreuth lawschool though. There's also the fact that there are a lot of Law professors in Germany that are famous for taking advantage of girls during their studies, because if you don't get a good grade in the law system you're effectively out and because they have lifetime tenure they have nothing to fear. But I do agree that on the grand scheme of themes Germany is WAY better than the other countries, especially considering the fact that they actually have a lot more parties in their parliament and sometimes actually have diverse opinions on things.
  - erosenbe0 5y ago
    Thanks for insight on German system. In USA, as elsewhere, there is a market for legal services, which of course motivates skill and competence. But the construction of the system (by the elites) is such that there is maybe an upper 5% of services that generate ~10x more revenues -- things like corporate mergers, investment banking, certain torts, etc. This doesn't happen as much in other countries. And you don't get into the premium service club by working 20 years to be a master of the trade -- you get there by simply gaining admission to Harvard Law and passing the bar same as any other lawyer.

another_story 5y ago

And that makes it ok for Russia to bomb innocent Ukranians? What is even the point of bringing up the US and the terrible things their government has done?

Nemrod67 5y ago
not really, but it makes us hypocrites
erosenbe0 5y ago
Absolutely nothing makes it okay. I think the assertion is that if the USA looked inward and led more by example then that would make the world a better place. Leading by example is always best. Just these last recent Olympics the Russians couldn't compete under their own flag as punishment for various serious transgressions. But the greatest scandal in the history of Olympic sports by a mile is the American Nassar child abuse scandal. Were we Americans punished and banned from having our flag flown at the Olympics? So maybe next time we don't look the other way on decades of abuse? Nah, Michigan and it's insurers are on the hook for a up to a cool billion and life moves on for us none the wiser. Edit: we have to show people (non-westerners) there is a better way and not assume it is self-evident! If they are exposed constantly to propaganda on [true] western hypocrisies it makes it so much more difficult for them to believe that the west's liberal order, though imperfect, is not as rotten as the alternatives. So that's why I advocate for Americans to look inward
- another_story 5y ago
  You don't think many Americans are equally upset about all the things their government does? Bernie Sanders was just on CSPAN talking about the US overthrowing leadership in S. America. Many Americans are fully aware of how messed up their country is. That being said, anytime anything anywhere bad happens a line of people forms to say “What about America,” as if that somehow absolves others. Also, the Olympics have been a joke for decades. I don't even understand why countries still waste the time and energy supporting it.
  - 5y ago