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The West has always demonized Russia. “Communism” equals the original sin and “communists” is basically a slur for about a century now. After America worked s

The West has always demonized Russia. “Communism” equals the original sin and “communists” is basically a slur for about a century now. After America worked so hard to unleash the most destructive weapon in human history, everyone should have cowed and crowned them the undisputed hegemons of the Earth. The idea of anyone daring to set themselves up as an antipode was extremely offensive. Even after the fall of the USSR and the convenient appearance of Muslims and Chinese offering themselves as adversary to All That We Cherish, apparently the West can’t resist such a big and easy dart board to pin their failings upon; Unrest in foreign nations? It’s the Russians. Division at home? Damn Ruskies again. I wonder if some racism also comes into play here; Here we were, after so much War, with all the white nations agreeing to get along hereafter, but then there’s these “other” white people who are somehow different and don’t want to play along. After we snuff out Russia, who will we turn upon next?

Ajef 5y ago
> “Communism” equals the original sin and “communists” is basically a slur for about a century now. This is a very US perspective I think. Here in Germany there are many that think communism is fairer than capitalism (although perhaps unrealistic to attain). Insulting something/someone by saying something is communist or someone is a commy is not really something that happens here (except perhaps in politics). [Edit] Just to add some perspective: Communist parties in european parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_parties_represented_in_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_parties_repr... Even large european countries have communist parties, some even voted into office (such as france, spain) and in the case of Spain even in the ruling coalition. Implying this is a western view neglects to realize how much US vs. Soviet propaganda has shaped the US population.
- delusional 5y ago
  I can attest to this. "Communist" is a slightly dirty word here in Denmark, but nowhere near the levels of the US. I think the general consensus here is that the USSR was a shitty totalitarian state that failed for shitty totalitarian reasons. Communism was just what they called their brand of totalitarianism. In reality it was a corrupt dictatorship.
- tankenmate 5y ago
  I can concur, having attended various schools around the globe growing up. In one nominally American school (actually run by Canadian Catholic brothers, but largely attended by boys of American ex-pats), calling someone a "Commie" was fighting words (i.e. liable to get you punched). In other schools if you called someone a "Commie" people would likely think you were very strange and/or drank too much of the Kool-Aid.
peregren 5y ago
Do you think Russia are being unfairly demonised by western countries right now? Is the invasion of Ukraine, + war crimes in some way just?
- zo1 5y ago
  Not OP. And I think so. It's outright war on all things Russian right now. Russia upset the social order of things and now they are being punished, everywhere, without impunity or due process. They will not stop until the entire Russian country is bankrupt and starving, or desperate enough to go far enough for them to escalate. Honestly, I see this anti-Russia stuff as using the Ukraine tragedy to hide racist motivations. Way I see it, Russia is the only white nation in the world that has tried to stand up to woke bullies and is not conforming to the woke and egalitarian zeitgeist that the rest of the west is drinking. The west has just been waiting for the opportunity to launch a full on "justified" hate campaign to bully them into submission, like they do everything else these days under the guise of fairness and justice. Sorry but it has to be said as all alternative opinions are being silenced and being removed from the world. I wanted to check this whole "RT is propaganda" claim by watching some RT and found out that it's been removed from the main distributor in South Africa. Half way across the world and some company or agency decided to jump in and ban a Russian television channel? You tell me straight that isn't retribution and/or coordinated censorship.
  - marmarama 5y ago
    Of course it's coordinated censorship. Free speech is not unlimited. By invading Ukraine and - in particular - threatening the use of nuclear weapons, Russia did the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Under the circumstances, the world is absolutely right to come down like a tonne of bricks on anything and everything Russian that might be used to justify those threats. I don't think you realise the gravity of the situation. BTW if you want alternative opinions there are plenty of non-RT ones out there. No-one's pulling China's CGTN off satellites, for example.
- Razengan 5y ago
  Not resorting to Whataboutism, but try to see how the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan (two in a row, and the subsequent occupation for 20 years no less!) by the US was seen as “just” by all the nations now condemning Russia. Take a look at maps of NATO expansion: https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/t37zf4/countries_joined_nato_after_cold_war https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/t37zf4/countries_j... If America was concerned about Russian nukes in Cuba, shouldn’t Russia be concerned about an alliance encroaching up to their literal border?
PartiallyTyped 5y ago
I consider my self a "commie", but I find Russia's government's behaviour repugnant. It has nothing to with the average Russian, but everything to do with the Government, the dictator, and those who willingly support them. That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia: - Installing puppets in foreign governments - Schroeder - Trump / GOP - Pushing for Brexit - Supporting conspiracy groups that lead to an insurrection that threatened the semblance of democracy that the US had - Sent children to war - Committed 11 distinct war crimes in just 8 days, including shooting civies and children that were fleeing, hospitals, and wearing UN and Ua colours. Russia isn't the problem, the problem is the person at the driver seat that is actively threatening a nuclear holocaust.
- ngc248 5y ago
  >>> That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia: >>> - Installing puppets in foreign governments >>> - Schroeder >>> - Trump / GOP >>> - Pushing for Brexit What .... Trump and GOP are russia plants? got proof?
  - PartiallyTyped 5y ago
    I can provide arguments in favour of the position but not definitive proof, you can decide whether all of this is just "circumstantial". - First day of war, Trump praises Putin for his behaviour, on tape, call him a genius [1, 4]. - Second day of war, Trump doubles down, on tape. [1] - When asked whether [Trump] made a mistake calling [Putin] a genius, Moskow Mitch dodges the question, responds that Putin is a "ruthless thug". [2] - [Repeatedly] met with Putin with no staff / note takers. [3] - [The first time] Trump was impeached over holding aid of $400m from Ukraine. [4] - Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit [5] - Trump veto'd sanctions against Russia [6] - Trump says it's 'common sense' to include Russia in G7 [7] - Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador [8] - Trump offered to help Putin with wildfires while ignoring wildfires in US [9, 10] And the list keeps growing, consider looking into Manafort under the light of these events. As for Schroeder, consider that he pushed for gas, is a close friend of Putin and didn't extend lifetimes of Nuclear plants, and after leaving his position he became board member in Gazprom [11, 12, 13] [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-putin-cpac-speech-ukraine-b2024210.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-calls-putin-ruthless-thug-when-asked-about-trump-comments-1683832 https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-calls-putin-ruthles... [3] https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/trump-putin-russia-g20-ft-note https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/trump-putin-russia-g2... [4] https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-ukraine-crisis-would-never-have-happened-if-president-2022-2?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-ukraine-cris... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812 [6] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia-sanctions-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia... [7] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump/trump-says-its-common-sense-to-include-russia-in-g7-idUSKBN23A285 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump/trump-say... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump... [9] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-putin-wildfires/trump-offers-putin-help-with-siberian-wildfires-kremlin-idUSKCN1UQ2UC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-putin-wi... [10] https://democrats.org/news/fact-sheet-trump-ignored-and-refused-to-help-prevent-wildfires/ https://democrats.org/news/fact-sheet-trump-ignored-and-refu... [11] https://www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancellor-schroder-gazprom-board-nomination/ https://www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancello... [12] https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10562307/Ex-German-chancellor-Gerhard-Schroeder-blasted-Putin-links.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10562307... [13] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-former-german-chancellor-gerhard-schroeder-loses-entire-staff-after/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-former-german-...
selfhoster11 5y ago
This is an intensely US-centric perspective. If the West includes new joiners from behind the Iron Curtain, then let me tell you that any "demonisation" of Russia is deserved. I'm too young to have experienced the communist times, but based on what I heard from my parents and from history, being a forcible subject to Russia sucks. And this is exactly what Russia is trying to achieve in Ukraine (if not just outright destruction instead). I was willing to give Russia a loan of trust and see how its post-USSR identity evolved. Unfortunately, it seems like that hope wasn't met with reality.

Ajef 5y ago

> “Communism” equals the original sin and “communists” is basically a slur for about a century now. This is a very US perspective I think. Here in Germany there are many that think communism is fairer than capitalism (although perhaps unrealistic to attain). Insulting something/someone by saying something is communist or someone is a commy is not really something that happens here (except perhaps in politics). [Edit] Just to add some perspective: Communist parties in european parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_parties_represented_in_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_parties_repr... Even large european countries have communist parties, some even voted into office (such as france, spain) and in the case of Spain even in the ruling coalition. Implying this is a western view neglects to realize how much US vs. Soviet propaganda has shaped the US population.

delusional 5y ago
I can attest to this. "Communist" is a slightly dirty word here in Denmark, but nowhere near the levels of the US. I think the general consensus here is that the USSR was a shitty totalitarian state that failed for shitty totalitarian reasons. Communism was just what they called their brand of totalitarianism. In reality it was a corrupt dictatorship.
tankenmate 5y ago
I can concur, having attended various schools around the globe growing up. In one nominally American school (actually run by Canadian Catholic brothers, but largely attended by boys of American ex-pats), calling someone a "Commie" was fighting words (i.e. liable to get you punched). In other schools if you called someone a "Commie" people would likely think you were very strange and/or drank too much of the Kool-Aid.

peregren 5y ago

Do you think Russia are being unfairly demonised by western countries right now? Is the invasion of Ukraine, + war crimes in some way just?

zo1 5y ago
Not OP. And I think so. It's outright war on all things Russian right now. Russia upset the social order of things and now they are being punished, everywhere, without impunity or due process. They will not stop until the entire Russian country is bankrupt and starving, or desperate enough to go far enough for them to escalate. Honestly, I see this anti-Russia stuff as using the Ukraine tragedy to hide racist motivations. Way I see it, Russia is the only white nation in the world that has tried to stand up to woke bullies and is not conforming to the woke and egalitarian zeitgeist that the rest of the west is drinking. The west has just been waiting for the opportunity to launch a full on "justified" hate campaign to bully them into submission, like they do everything else these days under the guise of fairness and justice. Sorry but it has to be said as all alternative opinions are being silenced and being removed from the world. I wanted to check this whole "RT is propaganda" claim by watching some RT and found out that it's been removed from the main distributor in South Africa. Half way across the world and some company or agency decided to jump in and ban a Russian television channel? You tell me straight that isn't retribution and/or coordinated censorship.
- marmarama 5y ago
  Of course it's coordinated censorship. Free speech is not unlimited. By invading Ukraine and - in particular - threatening the use of nuclear weapons, Russia did the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Under the circumstances, the world is absolutely right to come down like a tonne of bricks on anything and everything Russian that might be used to justify those threats. I don't think you realise the gravity of the situation. BTW if you want alternative opinions there are plenty of non-RT ones out there. No-one's pulling China's CGTN off satellites, for example.
Razengan 5y ago
Not resorting to Whataboutism, but try to see how the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan (two in a row, and the subsequent occupation for 20 years no less!) by the US was seen as “just” by all the nations now condemning Russia. Take a look at maps of NATO expansion: https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/t37zf4/countries_joined_nato_after_cold_war https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/t37zf4/countries_j... If America was concerned about Russian nukes in Cuba, shouldn’t Russia be concerned about an alliance encroaching up to their literal border?

PartiallyTyped 5y ago

I consider my self a "commie", but I find Russia's government's behaviour repugnant. It has nothing to with the average Russian, but everything to do with the Government, the dictator, and those who willingly support them. That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia: - Installing puppets in foreign governments - Schroeder - Trump / GOP - Pushing for Brexit - Supporting conspiracy groups that lead to an insurrection that threatened the semblance of democracy that the US had - Sent children to war - Committed 11 distinct war crimes in just 8 days, including shooting civies and children that were fleeing, hospitals, and wearing UN and Ua colours. Russia isn't the problem, the problem is the person at the driver seat that is actively threatening a nuclear holocaust.

ngc248 5y ago
>>> That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia: >>> - Installing puppets in foreign governments >>> - Schroeder >>> - Trump / GOP >>> - Pushing for Brexit What .... Trump and GOP are russia plants? got proof?
- PartiallyTyped 5y ago
  I can provide arguments in favour of the position but not definitive proof, you can decide whether all of this is just "circumstantial". - First day of war, Trump praises Putin for his behaviour, on tape, call him a genius [1, 4]. - Second day of war, Trump doubles down, on tape. [1] - When asked whether [Trump] made a mistake calling [Putin] a genius, Moskow Mitch dodges the question, responds that Putin is a "ruthless thug". [2] - [Repeatedly] met with Putin with no staff / note takers. [3] - [The first time] Trump was impeached over holding aid of $400m from Ukraine. [4] - Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit [5] - Trump veto'd sanctions against Russia [6] - Trump says it's 'common sense' to include Russia in G7 [7] - Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador [8] - Trump offered to help Putin with wildfires while ignoring wildfires in US [9, 10] And the list keeps growing, consider looking into Manafort under the light of these events. As for Schroeder, consider that he pushed for gas, is a close friend of Putin and didn't extend lifetimes of Nuclear plants, and after leaving his position he became board member in Gazprom [11, 12, 13] [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-putin-cpac-speech-ukraine-b2024210.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-calls-putin-ruthless-thug-when-asked-about-trump-comments-1683832 https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-calls-putin-ruthles... [3] https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/trump-putin-russia-g20-ft-note https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/trump-putin-russia-g2... [4] https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-ukraine-crisis-would-never-have-happened-if-president-2022-2?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-ukraine-cris... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812 [6] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia-sanctions-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia... [7] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump/trump-says-its-common-sense-to-include-russia-in-g7-idUSKBN23A285 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump/trump-say... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump... [9] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-putin-wildfires/trump-offers-putin-help-with-siberian-wildfires-kremlin-idUSKCN1UQ2UC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-putin-wi... [10] https://democrats.org/news/fact-sheet-trump-ignored-and-refused-to-help-prevent-wildfires/ https://democrats.org/news/fact-sheet-trump-ignored-and-refu... [11] https://www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancellor-schroder-gazprom-board-nomination/ https://www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancello... [12] https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10562307/Ex-German-chancellor-Gerhard-Schroeder-blasted-Putin-links.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10562307... [13] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-former-german-chancellor-gerhard-schroeder-loses-entire-staff-after/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-former-german-...

selfhoster11 5y ago

This is an intensely US-centric perspective. If the West includes new joiners from behind the Iron Curtain, then let me tell you that any "demonisation" of Russia is deserved. I'm too young to have experienced the communist times, but based on what I heard from my parents and from history, being a forcible subject to Russia sucks. And this is exactly what Russia is trying to achieve in Ukraine (if not just outright destruction instead). I was willing to give Russia a loan of trust and see how its post-USSR identity evolved. Unfortunately, it seems like that hope wasn't met with reality.