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the official goals are "demilitarization" and "denazification", As far as demilitarization goes, it seems the Ukrainian fleet, air defenses and bases have been

the official goals are "demilitarization" and "denazification", As far as demilitarization goes, it seems the Ukrainian fleet, air defenses and bases have been mostly destroyed by stand-off weapons, and an encirclement maneuver is appearing (North and South prongs). As for "denazification", it would appear most of what Putin calls nazis are concentrated on the border with the Donetsk and Lougansk sectors, in deep positions but with a no man's land behind them (flat and vulnerable to artillery). The West is winning the media war, but Ukraine is definitely NOT winning the war for now (they mostly cannot counter-attack)

nwallin 5y ago
Regarding "denazification": the president of Ukraine is Jewish, Russia just bombed the Holocaust museum in Kyiv, and the pro-Russian people in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Belarus are the Nazis. "Denazification" is total and complete bullshit. As for the point of the thread: denazification and demilitarization are stated objectives, not win conditions. The US achieved their stated objectives in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq #2, but failed to achieve the win conditions in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The jury is still out on Iraq #2 but sources say unlikely. For Russia, there are no win conditions.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Holding the Black Sea coast and oil fields might be the win condition.
patates 5y ago
If you could ask all the leaders who have led a nation through a war and kept their position, I suspect nearly none would accept a win condition that means they did not win.
sofixa 5y ago
> As far as demilitarization goes, it seems the Ukrainian fleet, air defenses and bases have been mostly destroyed by stand-off weapons, and an encirclement maneuver is appearing (North and South prongs). But many former civilians were recruited and armed, some airbases are still operational, and drones are wrecking havoc on Russian logistics. The encirclement has been appearing since day one, and has only advanced from the south.. Ukraine cannot win in traditional terms ( counterattack and push back), but they can surely win by crippling enemy morale, dealing devastating and unsustainable losses, and in general making the war too expensive to continue ( let alone a possible occupation). And that's going splendidly!
- ncmncm 5y ago
  It may be that Putin's ultimate goal is just to take the south, and actions north and east are mainly to draw resources away from the southern front. Actually holding ground north and east might not be worth the cost, but demolishing them costs much less than it costs Ukraine. Ukrainians will be on the hook for decades to rebuild them, no skin off Vlad's nose. People in the north will be much more strongly motivated to drive Russians out of the north than to attack holdings in the south, down to the Black Sea. Only taking the fight into Russian cities would give Putin anything to worry about.

nwallin 5y ago

Regarding "denazification": the president of Ukraine is Jewish, Russia just bombed the Holocaust museum in Kyiv, and the pro-Russian people in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Belarus are the Nazis. "Denazification" is total and complete bullshit. As for the point of the thread: denazification and demilitarization are stated objectives, not win conditions. The US achieved their stated objectives in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq #2, but failed to achieve the win conditions in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The jury is still out on Iraq #2 but sources say unlikely. For Russia, there are no win conditions.

ncmncm 5y ago
Holding the Black Sea coast and oil fields might be the win condition.

patates 5y ago

If you could ask all the leaders who have led a nation through a war and kept their position, I suspect nearly none would accept a win condition that means they did not win.

sofixa 5y ago

> As far as demilitarization goes, it seems the Ukrainian fleet, air defenses and bases have been mostly destroyed by stand-off weapons, and an encirclement maneuver is appearing (North and South prongs). But many former civilians were recruited and armed, some airbases are still operational, and drones are wrecking havoc on Russian logistics. The encirclement has been appearing since day one, and has only advanced from the south.. Ukraine cannot win in traditional terms ( counterattack and push back), but they can surely win by crippling enemy morale, dealing devastating and unsustainable losses, and in general making the war too expensive to continue ( let alone a possible occupation). And that's going splendidly!

ncmncm 5y ago
It may be that Putin's ultimate goal is just to take the south, and actions north and east are mainly to draw resources away from the southern front. Actually holding ground north and east might not be worth the cost, but demolishing them costs much less than it costs Ukraine. Ukrainians will be on the hook for decades to rebuild them, no skin off Vlad's nose. People in the north will be much more strongly motivated to drive Russians out of the north than to attack holdings in the south, down to the Black Sea. Only taking the fight into Russian cities would give Putin anything to worry about.