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No, they certainly shouldn't... for various reasons I did a vipassana 10 day silent retreat back in 2010, and, ended up triggering a bipolar episode[0]. No, the

No, they certainly shouldn't... for various reasons I did a vipassana 10 day silent retreat back in 2010, and, ended up triggering a bipolar episode[0]. No, there was no history of that in my family, it was a complete surprise. This obviously doesn't happen to everyone doing it, but, while my blog is very much buried now, I still get yearly mails from people saying that the same thing happened to them.. [0]. http://livingvipassana.blogspot.com/2010/02/bipolar-chronicles.html http://livingvipassana.blogspot.com/2010/02/bipolar-chronicl...

nerdponx 5y ago
A 10-day silent retreat is really intense though. A few minutes a day of calming your mind and being still in your body is a lot different. I suspect the author's 20 minutes a day of meditation was a bit more intense than just that. They describe voraciously reading Zen literature and also describe strong personal Christian beliefs. And why would you keep meditating intensely every day after you've started experiencing these symptoms? Wouldn't you want to back off a little at that point? It seems like people "abuse" meditation the same way people abuse hallucinogenic drugs, losing all sense of moderation and going too far with the psychonaut exploration stuff. Maybe also some people are unusually susceptible to these negative effects, and/or are unusually susceptible to being swept up in the spiritual quest fervor. I think this is the author's thesis, and fine, point taken. Those people in particular need to stay away from intense practice and should probably seek out a guide. But I think the majority of people don't have this problem.
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heyoni 5y ago
I quit on day 5. My life started playing itself in my head on repeat and I started to focus on all the pain. I would imagine the universe dying and coming back to life where everything, especially some nasty events would reoccur ad infinitum. I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. I had a panic attack, and then another and finally talked to the teacher who agreed that I should leave.
- littlethrowaway 5y ago
  I'm sorry to hear that - and I hope you're doing fine now. I really didn't have any "bad" experience like that (mania is awesome fun ;)), of course, the downside was depression followed by years of medication. They make such a deal about it being a "bad idea to leave midway through" ... I'm glad your teacher said you should (although even then, they're really ejecting you in what must be a pretty vulnerable situation). Anyway, hope you're doing fine now.
  - heyoni 5y ago
    > mania is awesome fun ;) That's what I was hoping for! just kidding. But no, for the most part I think I'm totally fine and I don't think vipassana caused anything new, I've always had intrusive thoughts and trouble focusing, but in general I'm fairly successful and lead a pretty normal life. Who knows what would have happened had I stayed, it's quite possible that things would have been much worse. I know I felt emotionally drained for a few weeks afterwards and almost numb.
- argentinian 5y ago
  > I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. Do you have some idea now about why that conviction seemed believable to you at that moment?
  - pasiaj 5y ago
    I had a similar experience that I might be able to explain logically. I was thinking about death, the exact moment of death, and thought about the last sensation felt by a dying person. I had a thought that the last affect you experience subjectively never goes away. That if you feel horrible at the moment of your death, subjectively that feeling never goes away. That idea and feeling shook me and made me think of heaven and hell being abstractions of the last subjective affect that you are ”stuck” with. I understand that this is nonsense, but it ties well together with abstract consepts about soul and afterlife and logic in a way that allowed my mind to create a model it, and feel all the horrible outcomes of that model. The model felt plausible enough to trigger strong emotion. It did not trigger anything long lasting - just a momentary feeling of terror.

nerdponx 5y ago

A 10-day silent retreat is really intense though. A few minutes a day of calming your mind and being still in your body is a lot different. I suspect the author's 20 minutes a day of meditation was a bit more intense than just that. They describe voraciously reading Zen literature and also describe strong personal Christian beliefs. And why would you keep meditating intensely every day after you've started experiencing these symptoms? Wouldn't you want to back off a little at that point? It seems like people "abuse" meditation the same way people abuse hallucinogenic drugs, losing all sense of moderation and going too far with the psychonaut exploration stuff. Maybe also some people are unusually susceptible to these negative effects, and/or are unusually susceptible to being swept up in the spiritual quest fervor. I think this is the author's thesis, and fine, point taken. Those people in particular need to stay away from intense practice and should probably seek out a guide. But I think the majority of people don't have this problem.

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heyoni 5y ago

I quit on day 5. My life started playing itself in my head on repeat and I started to focus on all the pain. I would imagine the universe dying and coming back to life where everything, especially some nasty events would reoccur ad infinitum. I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. I had a panic attack, and then another and finally talked to the teacher who agreed that I should leave.

littlethrowaway 5y ago
I'm sorry to hear that - and I hope you're doing fine now. I really didn't have any "bad" experience like that (mania is awesome fun ;)), of course, the downside was depression followed by years of medication. They make such a deal about it being a "bad idea to leave midway through" ... I'm glad your teacher said you should (although even then, they're really ejecting you in what must be a pretty vulnerable situation). Anyway, hope you're doing fine now.
- heyoni 5y ago
  > mania is awesome fun ;) That's what I was hoping for! just kidding. But no, for the most part I think I'm totally fine and I don't think vipassana caused anything new, I've always had intrusive thoughts and trouble focusing, but in general I'm fairly successful and lead a pretty normal life. Who knows what would have happened had I stayed, it's quite possible that things would have been much worse. I know I felt emotionally drained for a few weeks afterwards and almost numb.
argentinian 5y ago
> I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. Do you have some idea now about why that conviction seemed believable to you at that moment?
- pasiaj 5y ago
  I had a similar experience that I might be able to explain logically. I was thinking about death, the exact moment of death, and thought about the last sensation felt by a dying person. I had a thought that the last affect you experience subjectively never goes away. That if you feel horrible at the moment of your death, subjectively that feeling never goes away. That idea and feeling shook me and made me think of heaven and hell being abstractions of the last subjective affect that you are ”stuck” with. I understand that this is nonsense, but it ties well together with abstract consepts about soul and afterlife and logic in a way that allowed my mind to create a model it, and feel all the horrible outcomes of that model. The model felt plausible enough to trigger strong emotion. It did not trigger anything long lasting - just a momentary feeling of terror.