It sounds cheesy, but if they're still a country and have allies and citizens who believe in their future, I don't consider that a loss. A loss would be if the

It sounds cheesy, but if they're still a country and have allies and citizens who believe in their future, I don't consider that a loss. A loss would be if the dust settles and, for one reason or another, Ukraine is not recognized as a country anymore (either because Russia declares them as theirs and the rest of the world just forgets about it, or because they simply can't sustain themselves anymore). Germany took Poland to start WW2. Did Poland lose?