4 ms·

This view is a limitation of your understanding of Bitcoin. Layer 2 solutions like lightning and liquid network are built to scale to infinite transactions per

This view is a limitation of your understanding of Bitcoin. Layer 2 solutions like lightning and liquid network are built to scale to infinite transactions per seconds at near $0 cost if p2p participants choose that fee price point, which many current routing nodes do.

lazide 5y ago
Hardly - it’s a factual statement on it’s face, and what you said doesn’t refute it either. Lightning is not only very recent (welll past any planning timeline for anyone), but not widely adopted - and it would be nice if it would be, but it basically makes bitcoin that same thing it was trying to get away from for those clients - beholden to transaction brokers. Not as familiar with liquid, but if grouped the same way I imagine it’s the same problem. If you use bitcoin, it’s the same limitation as it ever has been, and good luck getting community consensus to change it - I was there for the Bitcoin cash split (and a lot of other discussions before that).
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >Hardly - it’s a factual statement on it’s face, and what you said doesn’t refute it either. This is wrong, Bitcoin can process infinite transactions in batched form using Layer 2. The scaling path was clear from the early years, your understanding of how this network was designed to scale while maintaining sufficient decentralization is limited. I stand by my original statement. Your view is a limitation of your understanding of Bitcoin.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Your understanding may be from circa 2017 too. LN is in production for years now and is used by small countries for retail payments. We can only see the amount of capital in channels in aggregate, we have no visibility into it’s actual use. I don’t hear too many complaints?
  - lazide 5y ago
    So you have no idea how much it is actually used, and it's only been around a few years - and that means it's a viable replacement for central banks?
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      >So you have no idea how much it is actually used It's peer to peer. If 2 nodes (Kucoin and Cashapp for example) send a trillion transactions between each other, how would a 3rd party know? You were there for the blocksize wars but didnt realize L2 was on the roadmap, which is partially why they didn't increase the block limit? Many core devs are now advocating for lowering the blocksize because of L2... Quote from Satoshi Nakamoto: >One use of nLockTime is high frequency trades between a set of parties. They can keep updating a tx by unanimous agreement. The party giving money would be the first to sign the next version. If one party stops agreeing to changes, then the last state will be recorded at nLockTime. If desired, a default transaction can be prepared after each version so n-1 parties can push an unresponsive party out. Intermediate transactions do not need to be broadcast. Only the final outcome gets recorded by the network. Just before nLockTime, the parties and a few witness nodes broadcast the highest sequence tx they saw. Sad state of HN members... Simple established facts about layer 2 scaling and Bitcoin history get downvoted. Ignoring the voting is now in ones interest, which sort of breaks this site.

lazide 5y ago

Hardly - it’s a factual statement on it’s face, and what you said doesn’t refute it either. Lightning is not only very recent (welll past any planning timeline for anyone), but not widely adopted - and it would be nice if it would be, but it basically makes bitcoin that same thing it was trying to get away from for those clients - beholden to transaction brokers. Not as familiar with liquid, but if grouped the same way I imagine it’s the same problem. If you use bitcoin, it’s the same limitation as it ever has been, and good luck getting community consensus to change it - I was there for the Bitcoin cash split (and a lot of other discussions before that).

ashwagary 5y ago
>Hardly - it’s a factual statement on it’s face, and what you said doesn’t refute it either. This is wrong, Bitcoin can process infinite transactions in batched form using Layer 2. The scaling path was clear from the early years, your understanding of how this network was designed to scale while maintaining sufficient decentralization is limited. I stand by my original statement. Your view is a limitation of your understanding of Bitcoin.
randomhodler84 5y ago
Your understanding may be from circa 2017 too. LN is in production for years now and is used by small countries for retail payments. We can only see the amount of capital in channels in aggregate, we have no visibility into it’s actual use. I don’t hear too many complaints?
- lazide 5y ago
  So you have no idea how much it is actually used, and it's only been around a few years - and that means it's a viable replacement for central banks?
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >So you have no idea how much it is actually used It's peer to peer. If 2 nodes (Kucoin and Cashapp for example) send a trillion transactions between each other, how would a 3rd party know? You were there for the blocksize wars but didnt realize L2 was on the roadmap, which is partially why they didn't increase the block limit? Many core devs are now advocating for lowering the blocksize because of L2... Quote from Satoshi Nakamoto: >One use of nLockTime is high frequency trades between a set of parties. They can keep updating a tx by unanimous agreement. The party giving money would be the first to sign the next version. If one party stops agreeing to changes, then the last state will be recorded at nLockTime. If desired, a default transaction can be prepared after each version so n-1 parties can push an unresponsive party out. Intermediate transactions do not need to be broadcast. Only the final outcome gets recorded by the network. Just before nLockTime, the parties and a few witness nodes broadcast the highest sequence tx they saw. Sad state of HN members... Simple established facts about layer 2 scaling and Bitcoin history get downvoted. Ignoring the voting is now in ones interest, which sort of breaks this site.