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Java's only claim to fame is that's the granddaddy of C#, a far superior language and IMHO one of the greatest computer languages ever created. In addition, Ja

Java's only claim to fame is that's the granddaddy of C#, a far superior language and IMHO one of the greatest computer languages ever created. In addition, Java was ahead of its time, with mid-1990's computing power not up to the job of letting it run smoothly on lower and mid-tier PC's. It also required, for that time, an egregious amount of RAM memory.

jokethrowaway 5y ago
C# is Java done right. Nothing special really, it shines only when compared to other mediocre scripting language we use nowadays. Performance wise it's still on the heavy side. As a user I hate both Java e C# desktop app.
- UltraViolence 5y ago
  I only hate it because there's no support for AOT (ahead of time) compilation and it needs a runtime. A native code compiled, statically linked Java or C# desktop app would be the ultimate C++ killer. It would also lessen the need for languages such as Rust.
karamanolev 5y ago
I've spent 3 years with C# professionally and greatly enjoyed them. That being said "one of the greatest computer languages ever created" is a bit of a stretch. Yes, it has a lot of nice features, relatively good ergonomy and in recent years, its openness has increased its viability a lot, but still. It's neither particularly innovative, nor does it allow you to do things you otherwise couldn't. It's no Erlang, Haskell, Assembly or something like that. It didn't pave the way for something like PHP did for the web backend or JS for the web frontend. Also, I really apologize for nitpicking, but "RAM memory" is a tautology.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
C# is a "standing on the shoulders of giants" kinda language IMO; they learned a lot from Java and evolved on it, mainly in terms of developer ergonomics and features that makes their life easier and less tedious. They had less of a design-by-committee team behind it as well, making development a LOT faster than Java, which feels like it's run by ancient, slow moving behemoth companies like Oracle and IBM. I mean I get it, they have tens if not hundreds of millions of LOC and thousands of developers working with it, they had to be conservative, but it didn't do the language much good, and after a few years, IMO C# raced past Java in terms of 'fun to work with'. The downside is that until .NET Core, C# was a closed shop; by Microsoft, for Windows, and everything needs to be licensed. Whereas Java embraced more of the open source and freedom of choice mentality.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Many .NET tools are still Windows only to this day. .NET is only open source up to the point that Azure related workloads, and iOS/Android development can be done from non-Windows platforms. Even for basic stuff like visualizing trace files, you still need to reach out to either Visual Studio proper or Perfview.
- kaba0 5y ago
  > C# raced past Java in terms of 'fun to work with'. I agree that language-wise, C# is definitely ahead. But just a heads up that I think it is also dangerously going towards the fate of C++ (or even already there) where no one person can hold the whole language in their head, and new but not learnt features might introduce problems down the line. For a language, what gets implemented is an important question but perhaps what doesn’t get is even more important, and Java (after the stagnation at the end of Sun) is a slow-mover but when they do, it is usually the best direction/approach. For an example, C# chose (even created afaik) async which is a good feature, but arguably a runtime language could have got away without any new feature and implement it in the runtime alone, a la project loom in java.
- UltraViolence 5y ago
  Java was open-source, but not free. Oracle tries everything to squeeze every last penny out of a company if they use Java or MySQL, including threatening with litigation. If Oracle can't make humongous profits from a product they simply drop it or run it into the ground.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    That’s why they completely open-sourced it and recently made even LTS-support of OracleJDK free of charge until the next LTS? Sure, they do make plenty of money from huge corporations still going with paid support for java 8 (I believe it will be supported till 2030 at least?!), like banks. But it ain’t a crime to ask money for proper services.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

C# is Java done right. Nothing special really, it shines only when compared to other mediocre scripting language we use nowadays. Performance wise it's still on the heavy side. As a user I hate both Java e C# desktop app.

UltraViolence 5y ago
I only hate it because there's no support for AOT (ahead of time) compilation and it needs a runtime. A native code compiled, statically linked Java or C# desktop app would be the ultimate C++ killer. It would also lessen the need for languages such as Rust.

karamanolev 5y ago

I've spent 3 years with C# professionally and greatly enjoyed them. That being said "one of the greatest computer languages ever created" is a bit of a stretch. Yes, it has a lot of nice features, relatively good ergonomy and in recent years, its openness has increased its viability a lot, but still. It's neither particularly innovative, nor does it allow you to do things you otherwise couldn't. It's no Erlang, Haskell, Assembly or something like that. It didn't pave the way for something like PHP did for the web backend or JS for the web frontend. Also, I really apologize for nitpicking, but "RAM memory" is a tautology.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

C# is a "standing on the shoulders of giants" kinda language IMO; they learned a lot from Java and evolved on it, mainly in terms of developer ergonomics and features that makes their life easier and less tedious. They had less of a design-by-committee team behind it as well, making development a LOT faster than Java, which feels like it's run by ancient, slow moving behemoth companies like Oracle and IBM. I mean I get it, they have tens if not hundreds of millions of LOC and thousands of developers working with it, they had to be conservative, but it didn't do the language much good, and after a few years, IMO C# raced past Java in terms of 'fun to work with'. The downside is that until .NET Core, C# was a closed shop; by Microsoft, for Windows, and everything needs to be licensed. Whereas Java embraced more of the open source and freedom of choice mentality.

pjmlp 5y ago
Many .NET tools are still Windows only to this day. .NET is only open source up to the point that Azure related workloads, and iOS/Android development can be done from non-Windows platforms. Even for basic stuff like visualizing trace files, you still need to reach out to either Visual Studio proper or Perfview.
kaba0 5y ago
> C# raced past Java in terms of 'fun to work with'. I agree that language-wise, C# is definitely ahead. But just a heads up that I think it is also dangerously going towards the fate of C++ (or even already there) where no one person can hold the whole language in their head, and new but not learnt features might introduce problems down the line. For a language, what gets implemented is an important question but perhaps what doesn’t get is even more important, and Java (after the stagnation at the end of Sun) is a slow-mover but when they do, it is usually the best direction/approach. For an example, C# chose (even created afaik) async which is a good feature, but arguably a runtime language could have got away without any new feature and implement it in the runtime alone, a la project loom in java.
UltraViolence 5y ago
Java was open-source, but not free. Oracle tries everything to squeeze every last penny out of a company if they use Java or MySQL, including threatening with litigation. If Oracle can't make humongous profits from a product they simply drop it or run it into the ground.
- kaba0 5y ago
  That’s why they completely open-sourced it and recently made even LTS-support of OracleJDK free of charge until the next LTS? Sure, they do make plenty of money from huge corporations still going with paid support for java 8 (I believe it will be supported till 2030 at least?!), like banks. But it ain’t a crime to ask money for proper services.